As long as the forum cant get into trouble, then members should feel free post at their own risk? I agree that PC, and cultural sensitivities are one huge PITA, and not to be pandered to.
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Thanks useful information: 16
As long as the forum cant get into trouble, then members should feel free post at their own risk? I agree that PC, and cultural sensitivities are one huge PITA, and not to be pandered to.
Last edited by extraball; 22-02-2013 at 10:47am.
CC allways appreciated!
My gear Canon 1100D, Tamron SP70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD lens, and Canon 18-55 EFS lens.
Here's one I just did ......Originally Posted by JanOD
"If you want to be a better photographer, stand in front of more interesting stuff.” — Jim Richardson
Nice shot...
Be even nicer if it was real! I faked it for another competition.
Wow Bobt - What an excellent shot!!!!! The bullet...the smoke... !! Well done!
Just read your post - sure looks real! Like I said - Well done!
Last edited by JanOD; 22-02-2013 at 11:50am.
Janice
'Life is like a camera. Focus on what's important, capture the good things, develop from the negatives, and if things don't work out, just take another shot.'
Ah Bobt, I grew up shooting Lee Enfield 303's in the rifle club attached to the high school cadet unit. Yes, the high school cadets had a rifle club and we shot at Williamsotown before it became expensive real estate. We also had a 25m rifle range near the hockey oval on school grounds that we used for Wednesday sports.
Wouldn't happen these days.
You're not wrong!! That's one of the reasons I have a .303 here - nostalgia, and in fact my time in the cadets was one of the reasons they let me have a license for it. I used to come home on the train, wearing a kilt and carrying a .303. You wouldn't see anyone lobbing on the 3.45 to Belgrave with a rifle these days without mass hysteria and a police contingent in full riot gear !! Of course that would probably still happen today if I got on wearing the kilt ... my legs would constitute an offense against public decency!
Threadstarter
In general, the person ( the subject of the photograph ) in possession and control of the firearm is the one who needs to be licensed. A photographer can photograph them to their hearts content and will not need any form of license so long as they keep their hands off the firearm.
AndrewNikon, Fuji, Nikkor, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina and too many other bits and pieces to list.
I am not one to crow about the "golden days" of yore, but here is an observation:
Once we would ride our bikes out of town, each with a 22 rifle slung over our back - we were 16, and not eligible to
carry firearms but not to drive. The rifle bolts were removed and stashed in pockets, and a sock with some bullets in another.
Police passed us by on several occasions, I think stopping us to check things out once. We'd trudge the hills for hours, seeing nothing,
and taking pot-shots at rocks or some suitable harmless target, then ride back, firearms made safe as before.
But now I don't particularly care about all that. I'll leave it here without commenting on the present state of things.
BUT about the nub of this thread. Yeah, sometimes firearms in photos are just gratuitous - and the photos are often "so what".
Not so Bobt's here.
A(i)m
Last edited by ameerat42; 22-02-2013 at 1:19pm.
CC, Image editing OK.
In Australia you are free to photograph a person holding a firearm (not weapon), as long as:
- that person is licensed to possess and use the category of firearm; and
- you as an unlicensed person do not handle the firearm.
I don’t believe this is correct.
I’m not licenced to own firearms in Australia but I have handled firearms, discharged firearms as well as taken photos of other un-licenced persons handling and discharging firearms. This was at a shooting club. Which laws were broken?
Nikon D90, 18-200VR II, Tokina 100mm Macro, Sigma 150-500, Nikkor 35mm, Giotto Rocket Air Blower
Rick can clarify that in more detail, but as an observer, I would imagine that as long as AP is not depicting or being seen to be encouraging illegal activities, it cannot be held liable.
Users are ultimately responsible for what they post.
- - - Updated - - -
In which state or territory did this take place, and in which year?
Were you acting under some sort of authority which allowed you to handle and use firearms?
The fact that it took place at a shooting club doesn't mean it was done legally. I should hope that wasn't the case, though!
I'm not saying that in your case anything illegal was done; I don't know the particulars of your situation.
I am not familiar with WA's laws (other than the general knowledge that they are extremely restrictive), but certainly in NSW, an unlicensed person is not permitted to handle firearms except after having completed a P650 form, which allows the person to handle firearms in the process of attending a safe handling course (which must be completed satisfactorily before one can even apply for a licence), or attending a fully-supervised 'Try Shooting' session.
One other exception is theatrical productions, but there need to be appropriate permits and licensed, supervising theatrical armourers involved with that.
Last edited by Xenedis; 22-02-2013 at 6:50pm.
My friend is in a club, and said if I was interested, I could go to a meeting, watch and learn, but to use one of theirs, I'd have to join the club. Only after at least 6 months membership and supervised firing could I possibly be approved to own one. She wasn't sure about that for me personally, as I'm not an Aussie citizen, just perm. resident - special rules may apply to me. But that was her understanding of Queensland laws for Aussies. I never asked her about photos at all though, and I'm going to. I might also contact the club and see what they say - you've got me curious now. She really does demonstrate my image of 'true blue Aussie' both in personality and looks (which I highly admire), it would be great to capture that, maybe in historical setting, done in B & W or sepia... (They meet in a historical village too!) Now, if I can find the time...
Yeah ... not entirely sure that this is correct - I'd like to see where it says that. I've shot a police service revolver at a police firing range standing next to the cop whose gun it was ....... not sure that would have happened if what you say is true. The simple act of handling an unloaded gun in various situations is unlikely to be illegal, and photographing a gun in virtually any situation is hardly likely to be an offense. I'd like to see actual legislation backing up any claims to the contrary.
clubs can hold an open day, and under tight supervision, unlicensed members of the public can shoot. This was all perfectly legal, back when I belonged to a pistol club, about 8yrs ago. I gave the sport away, and sold the pistol, because I just didn't enjoy it enough.
My apologies for what in hindsight seems to be clumsy wording on my part as quoted above.
My post could be interpreted such that a human subject depicted holding a firearm in a photo must be licensed in order for the photographer to take the picture.
That is not what I meant. The point I was trying to make in my post is that a person in NSW holding a firearm must be in possession of a licence or permit.
Except in very specific circumstances, a person in NSW may not handle a firearm without a licence or permit.
I cannot speak for what the police do. I know we have at least one NSW police officer frequenting this forum, and I'd love to hear his views (privately or publicly) on the situation you described.
If the person handling the firearm is unlicensed, then your claim is incorrect.
You need to have a licence or permit for the type of firearm you wish to possess.
Go into a gun shop in NSW, ask to handle a firearm, and then see what the staff say. You will be asked to show your licence, and if you do not have a licence with you (or if it is not for the category of firearm you wish to handle), you will not be allowed to handle the firearm -- at least, if the staff are complying with the law.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Depending on the nature of the photograph, it could potentially land a person in trouble, and personally, I think it's unwise to depict any illegal behaviour, or participate in it.
It is not illegal for you to photograph a firearm; it is, however, illegal, in NSW, for you or any other person to handle a firearm without a licence or permit, outside of very specific circumstances.
From Section 7A of the Firearms Act 1996 (NSW) at http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...96102/s7a.html:
FIREARMS ACT 1996 - SECT 7A
Offence of unauthorised possession or use of firearms generally
7A Offence of unauthorised possession or use of firearms generally
(1) A person must not possess or use a firearm unless the person is authorised to do so by a licence or permit.
Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 5 years.
(2) Without limiting the operation of subsection (1), a person who is the holder of a licence is guilty of an offence under this section if the person:
(a) uses a firearm for any purpose otherwise than in connection with the purpose established by the person as being the genuine reason for possessing or using the firearm, or
(b) contravenes any condition of the licence.
^ possess and handle, are they the same thing?
If you post a photo of someone handling a gun, who would know if they have legal possession of it?
If I have your car keys in my hand, am I in possession of them?
If you broke into some guy's home and stole his 50" television without being caught, who else would know whether or not you have legal possession of it?If you post a photo of someone handling a gun, who would know if they have legal possession of it?
At this point, I suggest that the OP of this thread be re-visited.
I suspect that the term "handle" is not so limiting as to make simply holding one illegal, and I agree that photographing an illegal act with a firearm would be a tad silly. Simply posing someone with a legally owned firearm would be unlikely to be illegal or to attract the ire of the law. NSW laws may well differ, but at some point common sense would have to prevail insofar as an innocent photograph taken for artistic purposes. Not likely to concern me as I'm unlikely to be in that situation. However, when you consider all the television shows that have actors holding guns I would doubt that they all have gun licenses.
From my interpretation of the legislation, from my experience as someone who is in the firearms business, and from discussions with others about this very issue on a shooting forum, I would have to disagree quite unequivocally with your statement.
As long as the person handling the firearm has an appropriate licence or permit, it is not a problem. Gun/shooting magazines regularly depict people holding firearms, but these are licensed shooters, not simply photographic models who otherwise do not have a legal, genuine reason for being in possession of a firearm, and appropriate licenses and/or permits.
As I pointed out, it is not legal in NSW for an unlicensed person (who otherwse does not have a permit or meet specific criteria) to handle a firearm.
In the interest of one's own sanity, it's best not make the mistake of associating firearms laws with common sense.
They are made by politicians who are inherently anti-gun in nature, ignorant of criminal behaviour vs. legitimate shooting activities by licensed, law-abiding shooters; and who do not want citizens owning firearms. Without getting much more political, I'll leave that point be.
That's fine, but the legality of the situation with relation to handling of firearms needs to be pointed out for the benefit of other people who may find themselves in that situation.
Again, I suggest re-reading the OP. The person who posted it had very good reasons for doing so, and it contains sage advice.
What you think should be vs. what actually is, are very separate matters.
Refer to this thread:
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/for...ographic-props
The initial post is the same as that of this thread, but you'll see further discussion about theatrical armourers and permits pertaining to theatrical productions.
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