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Thread: can't find Colour Channels in Elements?

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    can't find Colour Channels in Elements?

    I have an article on sharpening noisy images from the Advanced Photography Skills magazine.

    It is about sharpening noisy images and I fear that I can't use it in Elements.

    Part way through it says to go to the Channels display (Window>Channels) and select the green channel.

    Well, I can't find 'channels' anywhere in Elements 10!

    It says to switch it to the Green Channel, which has more data in it than the Red or Blue Channels and is much 'cleaner' with much less noise. It would be great if I could see if this worked....once I can find the Channels!

    Any idea???
    Monika
    Equipment: Canon 60D, Nikon FE, Nikkor 50mm 1.8 lens, Fancier FT-662A tripod, 18-55mm kit lens, 55-250mm kit lens, 30mm 1.4 Sigma lens, LR4, PS Elements
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    Member Kaktus's Avatar
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    Hi Ms Monny,

    I have not tried this myself yet, but have bookmarked the following:
    http://simplephotoshop.com/elementsp...r_channels.htm
    Maybe this is of help to you.

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    Thanks for the link, Kaktus. I looked at it and then tried to find it in Elements 10 but it isn't there....

    I can't even locate anything that looks similar in the Effects palette! I don't think it would do what I want it to do anyway, in regards to only selecting the Green Channel (the pic goes into B&W) and then altering only that channel with the Unsharp Mask.

    Handy link though!

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Wha-a-a-t? Can't find 'em. If Elements is so like Photohop, try Window - Channels.
    Two hints:
    1. If you use Channels a lot, park the "whatever-you-call-the-little-box" in the top RHS "little tray". (Wish I could remember the names!)
    2. View each color channel in greyscale - it's less muddy like that.

    Anyway, see the pic below for the CS2 appearance.
    Am.
    "the pic below"
    channels.jpg
    CC, Image editing OK.

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    Try Enhance>Adjust Colour, Monika. Not sure if that's what you want or not though.
    Waz
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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    ...Part way through it says to...select the green channel.
    ...It says to switch it to the Green Channel, which has more data in it than the Red or Blue Channels and is much 'cleaner' with much less noise...
    Do they give you a file to work with? The statement above is a generalisation. At best, it's not very clear. It almost seems to me that their green channel's "more data" simply refers to the effect of a Bayer Filter, and in this case, not accurately applied.

    (If I'm wrong I will gladly submit to a public whipping at lunchtime. If it's sunny, wear a hat.)
    Am.

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    G'day MM

    From my explorations with PSE, the only place I can recall seeing 'channels' is with Levels adjustments
    There are plenty of places & means of altering & filtering & etc etc etc, but 'channels' does not ring a bell

    Regards, Phil
    Of all the stuff in a busy photographers kitbag, the ability to see photographically is the most important
    google me at Travelling School of Photography
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    Am, no Elements doesn't have the same as PS, unfort. Thats prob why it's cheaper!!

    I am going to ditch trying to use this method of sharpening noisy images, as it is obviously used only with PS not PSE.

    Phil, I did finally find the 'channels' in the levels adjustment, but it doesn't really do what the other channel in PS does.

    Am, this is what the article said, word for word.....

    "In the previous article on sharpening, we said that sometimes it is best not to sharpen noisy images in case the noise is accentuated to the detriment of image quality. This is true for uniform sharpening, but it is possible to get good results by selectively sharpening only the green channel. As there are twice as many photodiodes sensitive to green light on a camera's sensor than those that are sensitive to red or blue, there is always more data in this channel, and it is much 'cleaner' than the other two, with considerably less noise. This makes it ideal for sharpening.

    1. The first thing to do is to reduce the noise in the image as much as possible. For this shot, I used a colour blurring technique. I made a duplicate layer, blurred it by 5 pixels using the Gaussian Blur filter and blended the layer to Colour before flattening the image.

    2. After performing noise reduction and any other adjustments, go to the Channels display (Windows>Channels) and select the green channel. The image will switch into black and white. If you're curious, take a look at the other two channels, and notice how much blotchier they are than the green channel. That's why we don't want to sharpen those layers.

    3. Apply a medium Unsharp Mask pass (Filter>Sharpen>Unsharp Mask) of 300%, Radius 0.8, Threshold 3, then return to the Channels box and click RGB. Combined with the other channels, the image should now be crispier, but not too noisy.

    Another good way of sharpening noisy images is to switch to LAB colour mode (Image>Mode>LAB Colour) and sharpen the Lightness channel. When you've finished, just switch the image back to RGB mode."

    So, there you have it. I can't do it in PSE, but I would LOVE someone to give it a go and let me know if it works!! My camera doesn't like going over ISO 800, and I have a few 1600 that really were too noisy for my liking. I was hoping to try this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    I can't do it in PSE, but I would LOVE someone to give it a go and let me know if it works!! My camera doesn't like going over ISO 800, and I have a few 1600 that really were too noisy for my liking. I was hoping to try this.
    This is one of the great things about Lightroom, Monika. It has a really useful noise reduction process and it's sharpening process even allows you mask the image to the parts that you want sharper (the edges) while leaving the other areas untouched. I always apply the NR to the luminance rather than RGB and sharpen to a tight mask so any noise left doesn't get sharpened along with everything else.

    What's more, LR4 will let you switch to PSE to perform any tasks you can't do in LR, then switch straight back into LR to finish off. It's pretty good pairing if you aren't prepared to spend the money and time to go with CS6. I'm pretty sure you can also get it as a free trial download so you can try it for yourself. If you decide to do that, let me know and I'll point you at a video tutorial on using the sharpening mask feature.

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    Thanks Waz. I should update my 'equipment'. I have Lr 4 and PSE 10.

    I have used NR in Lr and I do a lot in Lr and then go to PSE for layers etc, but I thought this might be a good option to try. Always up for something new!

    When you say you sharpen to a tight mask, you mean you slide the 'mask' up quite a bit?? I have used the mask a few times, but only with portraits.

    I guess I am ubber fussy about the noise and I HATE it! I am surprised that my 60D does give a bit of noise at 1600, or am I just being 'fussy'???

    The video tute would be handy, thanks Waz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    When you say you sharpen to a tight mask, you mean you slide the 'mask' up quite a bit?? I have used the mask a few times, but only with portraits.

    I guess I am ubber fussy about the noise and I HATE it! I am surprised that my 60D does give a bit of noise at 1600, or am I just being 'fussy'???

    The video tute would be handy, thanks Waz.
    With the mask slider on my iMac if I hold the "option" key while sliding I get a view of how close to the edges the sharpening applies. It's brilliant. On a PC it's probably the ALT key? The tutorial is on the lightroomkillertips.com website linked elsewhere but I'm struggling to find the specific tutorial so I guess you'll just have to explore.

    Try it yourself first, though. Just hold down the ALT key and move the mask slider below the sharpening slider and you should see the edges appear as you slide it to the right. How tight you go is up to you. I usually end up somewhere in the 60's (just like my age )

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    OMG!! That is brilliant! It worked (Alt key). Thank you sooo much. I could barely see it with the naked eye but this is fantastic.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    MM

    "Palette" and "Dock" were the words I couldn't remember yesterday

    Nevertheless, you seem to be unfortunately right, but with a modicum of luck.
    In this link about Elements

    I saw this early phrase, but then it gives you this workaround, so you CAN do it...
    Editing the Red / Green / Blue Channels in Photoshop Elements...
    This set of actions is intended as a substitute for the missing Channels palette. It lets you edit the Red, Green, and Blue color channels individually.
    Good lark! (Or is that for bird pics?)
    Am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    OMG!! That is brilliant! It worked (Alt key). Thank you sooo much. I could barely see it with the naked eye but this is fantastic.
    The same key will give you similar effects in the noise reduction and a number of other sliders, Monika. For the sharpening radius slider, I select my focal point and then use the ALT + radius slider and in the little close up window you can see any haloing. Best results seem to lie with radii between .5 and 1.0 too. Glad you found it and I'm sure it'll help you feel better about the noise from your 60D.

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    Unless I am totally blind, I actually can't find that in the effects, like the link you gave. ??? I don't know what I am doing wrong....but it prob doesn't matter, because it is different to what the article is talking about and it wouldn't work with how the article is describing how to do it.

    Could you try the 'sharpening on noisy images' in CS2 for me??? I really want to know if it can be done or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    MM

    "Palette" and "Dock" were the words I couldn't remember yesterday

    Nevertheless, you seem to be unfortunately right, but with a modicum of luck.
    In this link about Elements

    I saw this early phrase, but then it gives you this workaround, so you CAN do it...


    Good lark! (Or is that for bird pics?)
    Am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    Unless I am totally blind, I actually can't find that in the effects, like the link you gave.
    The "article" Am linked is advertising some pay-for-me actions for PSE to produce similar stuff to the old colour channel editing feature. I went looking all over the place, too, until I went to the main page and saw I had to buy the actions to get the results.

    Am was talking about a workaround as well, but I couldn't see that in the linked page. Then again, I'm an old $@r+ so I'm not surprised.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    ...Unless I am totally blind...
    Who's the blind one? It appears that in my haste I made plenty of waste. Blasted Elements! I am now thinking.
    In my earlier searching I was casting far and wide, too. Oh, well!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    Could you try the 'sharpening on noisy images' in CS2 for me??? I really want to know if it can be done or not.
    I've never tried this before (that I can remember) but I have heard of it in one of the tutorials here. (SOMEONE PLZ HELP.)
    However, I could give it a try, but on what image? I do not have one to hand that would fit the bill for trying this.
    Am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Monny View Post
    OMG!! That is brilliant! It worked (Alt key). Thank you sooo much. I could barely see it with the naked eye but this is fantastic.
    Woohoo! I finally remembered where that video tutorial on sharpening in Lightroom 4 was hiding! It was on Light & Matter.org and here it is! Best 10 mins on Lightroom so far. Enjoy!


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    Thanks Waz!!

    Also, here is the link for all others to see. It is regarding LR4 and an option to have a drop down box for the RGB channels.

    Last edited by WhoDo; 06-08-2012 at 6:58am. Reason: Updated video link

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