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Thread: Horizontal Lines in dark spots of images taken with studio lighting.

  1. #1
    Account Closed AutumnCurl's Avatar
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    Exclamation Horizontal Lines in dark spots of images taken with studio lighting.

    Hi,

    Please help me determine if the faint Horizontal "lines" on the darks/grays of my images can be seen by others or if its to do with my macbook pro, camera or perhaps I've gone insane.

    in this one i see it in the black to the right of the right arm.
    Image Quality: Lossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)
    Device: Nikon D800
    Lens: 24-70mm f/2.8G
    Focal Length: 44mm
    Focus Mode: AF-C
    Aperture: f/5.6
    Shutter Speed: 1/320s
    Exposure Mode: Manual
    Exposure Comp.: 0EV
    ISO Sensitivity: ISO 100
    White Balance: Preset manual d-1, 0, 0
    Color Space: sRGB
    High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
    Long Exposure NR: OFF
    Active D-Lighting: OFF


    and in the background where its is lighter than solid black.


    Image Quality: Lossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)
    Device: Nikon D800
    Lens: 24-70mm f/2.8G
    Focal Length: 38mm
    Focus Mode: AF-C
    Aperture: f/4
    Shutter Speed: 1/250s
    Exposure Mode: Manual
    Exposure Comp.: 0EV
    ISO Sensitivity: ISO 100
    White Balance: Preset manual d-1, 0, 0
    Color Space: sRGB
    High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
    Long Exposure NR: OFF
    Active D-Lighting: OFF

    I have converted images to .jpg in nikon software to upload.

    I am thinking its the screen on my macbook, but can't be 100%, the lines are faint but if it was a pregnancy test they would be positive ..

    This is the first time i have used the studio lighting so still learning how to use it and the d800 has a brand new CF card.

    Photo is just of me testing everything, so nothing serious.

    Could this be a type of moire effect caused by the combination of lights and paper background?

    thanks

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    Your shutter speed is getting to the point over 1/200s where you might start seeing the curtain effect...however...usually thats a dark horizontal band, so, yeah, not sure
    Darren
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    i see very small lines about 1 mm thick, in the lighter than black areas of the background.

    The d800 can sync at 1/320s
    Last edited by AutumnCurl; 16-07-2012 at 10:09am. Reason: autocorrect

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    Sync speed will differ by light and trigger also

    But the symptons dont really gel

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    In Training MarkChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    Your shutter speed is getting to the point over 1/200s where you might start seeing the curtain effect...however...usually thats a dark horizontal band, so, yeah, not sure
    The band is only horizontal for landscape orientation, when in portrait orientation the curtain will leave a vertical line

    - - - Updated - - -

    I can't actually see the lines you are talking about, these are very black in the background for me
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    Moderately Underexposed I @ M's Avatar
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    I see the bands that you mean ( I think ) but only just because the images are so tiny.

    How are triggering your strobes?

    The reason I ask that is most wireless triggers other than the likes of pocket wizard and maybe the new ones from phottix struggle to synch at speeds above about 1/160. The 1/320th synch speed the D800 is rate at is in conjunction with a Nikon speedlight and not with remote monoblocs.
    If you are using your speedlight or even the built in flash to trigger the monoblocs optically at those speeds the banding might be from the speedlight or built in flash leaving a slight residue of light in the image.
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    they are wireless sync, but the problem i am having isn't to do with shutter speed or shutter curtains I'm starting to think its my laptop screen.

    the lines i see are almost like what can happen when you scan an photo.

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    are talking about the lighter splodge part of the image middle left on both images ?

    Otherwise I cant see lines....fyi...my work LCD screen has faint vertical lines/banding too on the screen

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    For me there are swirl like lines but they're vertical not horizontal, and they follow around the shoulder on the left of image, and come all the way down from the top on the right of image, but again seem to follow her contours in various places, they're hard to describe, but a bit like oily layers or something. Most noticeable in the small image, but also there if you follow the image to flickr and view it at its largest size. No idea how to help you with them, but that's what I'm seeing, and that's on my laptop monitor, which is pretty good for images so far.
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    I inside the red square/rectangle i see small lines, a couple shades lighter than darkness, they might even have a hint of purple.

    i think its just this laptop, will check on my husbands when he gets home, and also on the iPad..but i want to make sure its not a camera problem, or something I'm causing ( which knowing me is fairly likely)


    @ezookiel
    I can't see what you see LOL

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    Moderately Underexposed I @ M's Avatar
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    A bigger image and a crop is the way to go.
    I can see where you mean the problem is now.
    There have been a few bits of net chatter about some dud sensors in the D800 bodies that are causing banding -----

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    I can see them quite clearly on my work PC. On both photos. Definately a distraction from a great shot.

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    Is your laptop monitor calibrated?
    Are their lines in your backdrop?
    Was their light going across the scene, that might contribute to this (light leak from the light source)?
    Light from another source (open door nearby etc).
    Could be from processing technique
    Could be from JPG compression
    Could be camera sensor issue

    Without us being there and knowing what was happening at the time of shooting, it is impossible for us to isolate the cause. All suggestions here are basically covering what it could be, but without being on site and seeing at the time of shooting we are all just guessing at possibilities.
    "It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro

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    @andrew these are shot as ISO 100 - so shouldn't be a issue and from what i can find online its at high ISO that people claim to have a problem with. Also is only on the background not in the whole image and not on all the images taken with my d800, it seems to only be in certain type of grey/black

    @ rick
    I know that, i am trying to work out if other people can see it the lines or not to narrow down where the problem is, if nobody else can see them, then its my laptop, not how it was shot or the camera.

    Is your laptop monitor calibrated? yes.
    Are their lines in your backdrop?No is a paper roll
    Was their light going across the scene, that might contribute to this (light leak from the light source)? no it was night time
    Light from another source (open door nearby etc). my garage is sealed like a drug lab, and even if it wasn't i find it hard to be able believe i could manage to leak like in such a uniform way.
    Could be from processing technique, its not post processed
    Could be from JPG compression, no because i can see it on the raw file.
    Are you able to see the lines?

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    In Training MarkChap's Avatar
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    Try opening up the shadows and blacks in lightroom or ACR and I will bet you pounds to peanuts that what you are seeing is just some left over skin or what ever is under the black top
    from the arm of you model that hasn't quite gone as black as the rest of that edge
    Last edited by MarkChap; 16-07-2012 at 6:24pm.

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    for what its worth, i cant see anything wrong.....

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutumnCurl View Post
    Are you able to see the lines?
    I am currently looking at AP via an uncalibrated laptop (not mine) and no I cannot see them

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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    I also can't see it on my laptop. But then again its quite an old MBP, uncalibrated and due for replacement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But I agree with MarkChap. Open up the shadows to try and exaggerate the symptoms.
    Nikon FX

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    FWIW I can't see the lines you're talking about. My monitor is generally OK.

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    It looks to be posterisation and is a common problem with 'lo fi' monitors and even some hi qual monitors too.

    Basically you'll see it more readily in the shadow areas(blues are notorious for it), and the easiest way to describe it is that it may not really be there!!

    The only way to fully know is to also print a copy of the images affected by the posterisation and see if it shows up in. Don't waste too much time and effort with the print tho.

    I had similar issues a while back in a lot of images(landscapes) where it was showing up in the blues on my screen, but the cheapie low quality home office colour laserjet prints I tried simply didn't show up the posterisation at all.

    If you could try it all again jst to confirm the issue:

    same shots if you can but this time in 12bit mode on the camera instead of 14bit.

    it's probably hard to capture the image in the exactly the same manner as you already did, so may try a new test to see if it makes any difference.

    That is, for your new test, you'll need identical images, one in 14bit and the other in 12bit mode.
    edit them in exactly the same manner and see how they both fare.
    Is one better or worse than the other.

    Can you see the problem in the raw file, in any raw file viewing software?
    (I've only seen it in edited images and derivative jpgs).
    Also, posterisation occurs with your editing processes too.
    Did you try to recover the shadow detail in the affected images?

    Basically two easy ways to describe it, and they can look the same:

    1. image has a lot of detail and very fine tone rendering that the screen can't replicate.
    in this instance you can see it on the screen, but you won't see it in a print. (you may see it in a very lo quality print tho!)

    2. if the issue is processing/editing related(very unlikely with a 14bit image, but possible), not only will you see it on screen, but you will also see it in any print you make.
    This form of posterisation is a lot more rare in high quality captures(ie. DSLR/14bit/etc) but can happen with extreme processing.

    .. anyhow, that's what I reckon it is, and have seen in come and go on my images, but don't worry too much with it as it's not real. That is, I can see it on the screen(depending on the screen) but not in any print).

    pe. Turn off High ISO NR .. you simply don't need it.(shouldn't affect ISO100 images tho).
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