Defects in D800

[Lance B]

I still think that the soft image is from the camera/lens shake and/or VR action : the beak, eye and neck look sharper than other part of the picture. But there is some kind of double lines along the beak and on the eye. The bokeh doesn't look as smooth as it should be either with this kind of lens.
Blurred image caused by vibrations can happen even at 1/8000" (resonance of frequencies).

Good point, Sar. You may be right.

[Wayne]

I think more testing is needed, deliberate testing. I will do that when I'm back next week. I will use MUP to eliminate any slap, and I will lock it down on the Wimberley with and without VR. I use the "AF" on button to focus, so I would have had that held in prior to obtaining focus, and that would have had the VR already on. I do know what you mean with the VR Sar, on elements this big, there is quite a big jolt going on inside the lens barrel when you first activate it with a press of the button and with the increased resolution it may now show as a focus issue when the same thing happened on other lower resolution bodies all along, it was just very difficult to see if you could see it at all.

I agree with your thoughts Lance on the increased resolution, essentially even slight OOF areas show more easily, and the DOF appears smaller than with lower resolution RAW files.

[Tommo1965]

yep not good wayne..Im interested to see how this pans out for you..I did have a play with a D800 in the shop yesterday..it felt quite light next to my D700...perhaps the issue is Mirror slap ?....a test with MLU and without would be interesting....

[mongo]

Wayne , that is a very soft image for whatever reason !

MOngo does not understand why you are playing around with the AF. IF you want to test the lens for pure optical performance (instead of mechanical/AF performance) , just look through the viewfinder and focus it as sharply as you can manually at a stationary object - again using the tripod, high shutter speed (1/2500th should have been plenty) and VR "off" to eliminate VR issues if any. then look at and compare the results. We really need to test this performance before be go into whether or not it is the D800's AF system. If the manual test shows great results, then, it is very likely that it is the D800's AF system that is the problem OR vibration. However, if you get a great manual result, then, that should also eliminate vibration as the cause.This leaves only the D800's AF or VR systems. To eliminate the VR take manual focus images with it on and off and see if that is playing a role. If not , it must be the D800's AF system (including whether or not it is back focusing etc.

last point, what does this exact arrangement come out like on your D700 and D3s ??

[Wayne]

Mongo,

The same lens + TC combo on the D700 and D3s would cut you, razor sharp wide open, 1-2-3 stops down no matter where, with or without VR it is sharp. You are right in saying a manual focus test will eliminate the lens and it is certainly required, however I'm very confident it isn't the lens, as it hasn't had any rough handling etc since last used on the other bodies. I will do the manual test however.

I am also going to test it bare and on the D3s at same time. I will also throw the 200/2VR & AF200/4micro on and see how that goes, given Sar mentioned the 200/2 above. These 3 lenses would be among the highest resolving Nikkors ever, so there can be no questioning their ability if they are working correctly. In any case I would rather have to send the body back to Nikon under warranty than have to CLA the 400/2.8.

[mongo]

Mongo,

The same lens + TC combo on the D700 and D3s would cut you, razor sharp wide open, 1-2-3 stops down no matter where, with or without VR it is sharp. You are right in saying a manual focus test will eliminate the lens and it is certainly required, however I'm very confident it isn't the lens, as it hasn't had any rough handling etc since last used on the other bodies. I will do the manual test however.

I am also going to test it bare and on the D3s at same time. I will also throw the 200/2VR & AF200/4micro on and see how that goes, given Sar mentioned the 200/2 above. These 3 lenses would be among the highest resolving Nikkors ever, so there can be no questioning their ability if they are working correctly. In any case I would rather have to send the body back to Nikon under warranty than have to CLA the 400/2.8.

excellent. Agree that those 3 lenses have to be some of the sharpest things ever. Keen to see how your tests go. Forgot to mention that for your D800 tests (after the manual tests) DO NOT use anything but a single point AF to test the AF system! Then take several images as Mongo did using the far left, middle and far right AF sensor in turn and compare the images taken at each AF point. If they vary noticeably from each other it is almost certainly the AF calibration of the camera that needs adjustment.
MOngo now has his camera back and will test it tomorrow and let you all know how well Nikon were able to fix the issue. The rain is a pain but will still try and give it a reasonable test tomorrow.

[Wayne]

I will equally be waiting for your results Mongo. My body doesn't exhibit any issues with 24-70, 70-200, 85/1.4(which I would have thought would be a sure culprit if any where going to be an issues), 50/1.4, 17-35.
It has only shown what appears to be an "issue" with the most professional and expensive lens I own, the 400/2.8. I haven't had it on the 200/2 or 200/4 micro yet, so will see in a weeks time....

[Bennymiata]

I'm so glad I got a 5D3.
The focussing is amazing!

[Lance B]

I'm so glad I got a 5D3.
The focussing is amazing!

LOL. Pity about the rest of the camera!

[reaction]

I'm sure he's just trolling, what Canon user would read 4 pages of Nikon!

It's head to head on the firmware front, 5D3 has more updates than the 5D2 had in the first year, and D800 has more updates than the D700 in its whole life... ?

It's clear to me that the 5D2 set the precedent that DSLRs are no longer appliances that should work out-of-box (like a DVD player or TV), but now have firmware fixes throughout their lifetime like PC software. Prior to 5D2 every DSLR would expect 1-2 firmwares during their life, and generally it would not be a fix but to update larger media sizes.

[I @ M]

Some people really do need to do some research before posting in threads such as this one.

[William]

Would be good if all/both companies would bring out a new camera FF without all the bells and whistles like they used to be , A Kingswood version if you like

[Kym]

Would be good if all/both companies would bring out a new camera FF without all the bells and whistles like they used to be , A Kingswood version if you like

Repeating myself...

Modern cameras are extremely complex mechanically and electronically.
As much testing etc. that goes into them it is impossible to have this tech 100% bug free.
I guess this is why we buy local (support) and not so much grey esp. camera bodies.
I'm sure Nikon will sort this issue PDQ.

Modern cameras are very complex pieces of gear and every new feature is an increase in the number system interactions, i.e. an increase in complexity.
A without all the B&Ws model won't happen due to 'consumer demand', i.e. mine is bigger/better/faster than yours (keeping up with the Joneses).

Lets face it, any camera produced in the last few years will do 99.9999% of what is needed without any problems
and far exceeds the needs of most of us.

[William]

I read your original post Kym, No need to repeat ,

This says it all and you said it , Quote :and far exceeds the needs of most of us !!

Getting back to Mongo's D800, Really glad to hear you got your Camera back mate , Looking forward to your test results and hope everything is alright now , Hope I did'nt do anything to it while I played with it up here

[kiwi]

It's only as complex as you want to make it though

If you can choose shutter speed, ISO, and f/stop what more can you need and the controls to do those things haven't really changed for a long time

[Bennymiata]

I do read some of the Nikon stuff too, even though I am a Canon user.

Sorry about the ribbing.

Let's face it, Canon and Nikon are fairly similar to each other.
In one generation, one may have slight advantages, only to be usurped in the next generation.
Once you've decided which brand fits your hands better, or you like their menus better etc., and you have a collection of lenses and flashes, it's hard to change brands.

The 5D3 has had its problems too, and none of these highly complex machines are ever going to be perfect.

I hope your problems are solved now Mongo and that your new D800 does a sterling job for you.
I know the D800 is a great camera, as is the 5D3. I'm very happy with mine.

[swifty]

Wayne: jz to add I agree with Sar's assessment of your image. The bokeh quality is reminiscent of when VR goes wrong.
Thought the rule was the sampling frequency of Nikon's VR is only 500htz so shutter speeds exceeding 1/500 generally don't work so well and can cause strange artifacts.
Anecdotally I've used it VR at speeds above 1/500 but never in the 1/2500 region but haven't noticed the strange bokeh qualities in any of my pics.

[Duane Pipe]

I do read some of the Nikon stuff too, even though I am a Canon user.

Sorry about the ribbing.

Let's face it, Canon and Nikon are fairly similar to each other.
In one generation, one may have slight advantages, only to be usurped in the next generation.
Once you've decided which brand fits your hands better, or you like their menus better etc., and you have a collection of lenses and flashes, it's hard to change brands.

The 5D3 has had its problems too, and none of these highly complex machines are ever going to be perfect.

I hope your problems are solved now Mongo and that your new D800 does a sterling job for you.
I know the D800 is a great camera, as is the 5D3. I'm very happy with mine.

You knuckle head Benny I was going to do the same thing but end in sympathy toward Mongo, Pore bugger AND SHAME on QA
I used to work there Benny, on afternoon shift drinking grog

Good info for all camera makes

[Tommo1965]

Would be good if all/both companies would bring out a new camera FF without all the bells and whistles like they used to be , A Kingswood version if you like

Bill...I think the Leica may fit that description

[I @ M]

Bill...I think the Leica may fit that description

Errr, hang on, they wanted a camera that will actually take decent photos rather than just being a conversation piece for the cafe latte sipping brigade.