Sensor cleaning question

[ashey]

I think it was unrealistic to charge you $160, buy the gear and do it yourself it's not hard.

[arthurking83]

Ethanol is probably ok for the cleaning aspect of the sensor clean, as it would do a good job, but the point that the other replies were trying to make, is that it may not be safe(especially over the long term) for the coatings on the sensor's filter pack.
Eclipse fluid is Ethanol, but I'm pretty sure it is diluted too. That is, if left unshaken for too long it will leave streaks across your sensor. I shake my Eclipse fluid vigorously before use now.
The point is, that there is something else in the Ethanol that comes in an Eclipse fluid bottle, otherwise it wouldn't leave the streaks. (I suspect distilled water, maybe)
So from this, it may be safe to say that pure ethanol may be too strong, and could clean off not only the dust specks, but also strip the coatings off the filter too.

Dunno what camera you have there jupiter, but the method of application sounds highly suspect more than anything else!

Dropping a drop of fluid onto the sensor is (from what I remember of sensor cleaning) quite a lot of fluid to have flooding the sensor surface.
I suppose that if you work in a lab, you'd have access to very finely honed pipettes and other tools to ensure that this drop was close to insignificant.
That is, you didn't use a drop from a domestic dropper tube, where the size of the droplet could be too large.
One thing you really won't want to do regularly is wipe off excess fluid over the sides of the filter surface, and down the sides of the sensor area!!
While the filter to sensor perimeter is sealed to stop dust settling on the sensor surface itself, I'm pretty sure that the sides of the sensor chip, where the effective electronic channels run, are not sealed .. Sealed from dust that is. If fluid gets down the sides and onto these communications lines, you could do long terms damage to the sensor.

Each to their own, but this is not something that I would do either.

Always wet the applicator(not too wet tho .. two drops is about as much as you need and the applicator soaks up the excess) ... and then swipe the sensor clean.

[Dwarak]

I sent my 5d mark 2 for a sensor clean to a reputed store in south Brisbane and they said the same thing they could get out most of the dust but was not happy with the results then I sent it to Gavin at teds in the city. I was happy with the results not 100% clean but a better job then the other place and heaps cheaper.


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[Bennymiata]

Re the anti-static devices.
Many, many years ago, when I was really into hi-fi, and had a vast record collection, I had an anti-static gun to "fire" at the records to remove static.
It worked really well in that if you had a dusty record, you'd zap it with the gun, then if you turned it upside down, you could see the dust fall off it.

I don't know of these are still available, but you might find one at a jumble sale or something, and could be useful to use on the sensor before cleaning.

[Wazza999]

I believe the commercial fluids are iso-propanol based, it has a sweeter smell than ethanol. There are two types of eclipse fluids, type 1 and type 2 for tin oxide coated sensors (some sony and pentax models). Type 2 works for all sensors I believe. Vanbar have a good kit with pec pads for lens cleaning as well. BTW, you wouldn't get streaking if the alcohol was mixed with water as they are miscible liquids not suspensions and wouldn't need shaking.

[rodw]

Well I had a go at this today. I picked up a sensor cleaning kit from Photocontinental. Yes I know they are expensive but what the heck. I decided to get the kit with the illuminated lens loupe that saves you from taking photos as it was about half the price in the kit than if you bought it later. It was definitely not easy to do on my D40. I used quite a few of the supplied swabs before I was happy with the result and took a few sky shots along the way which are still required but only towards the end.

I got the stuck on stuff fairly easilly but getting the last skerrick of dust off the sensor was quite tricky. The kit included a little polishing pen and once I started to use that I made some progress.

What I can say is that it would be very hard to damage the sensor as I gave it a fair old rubbing. A couple of times I ended up with rub marks on the sensor but eventually they came off. I was a bit worried a couple of times though!

[old dog]

I finally bought a wet clean kit last week and after two goes the sensor is clean as. I`m quite impressed at how easy it is to do. I just practiced on a CD case for a couple of times and then went for it. Also I bought a can of compressed air to try before the wet clean. All good.

[achee]

This seems to be the most recent thread on sensor cleaning, so I'll ask here...

I've been trying to clean my sensor and... well, the results are far from satisfactory! This is what I've been doing:

1. Blowing out the sensor / mirror box using a small general purpose hand pump (with short flexy hose and blower tip), camera on tripod facing down. The hand pump puts out a lot more air than the typical 'rocket' blowers.

2. Wet-swabbing the sensor with VisibleDust swabs and VDust Plus solution, camera on table facing up.

Over the last hour or hour or so I've repeated blowing and swabbing about 3 times, and it seems like the spots are moving around, but they don't seem to be coming out! When I swab, I can't seem to be able to get the dust off the end of the sensor, so they sit at one side. I'm trying to swipe as far to the sides as I can!

Any suggestions? Should I get a brush and add dry brushing to my process?

Cheers!

[arthurking83]

....

Any suggestions? Should I get a brush and add dry brushing to my process?

Cheers!

Nope!!
if there is still dust on the sensor, then brushing is highly discouraged. It CAN scratch the sensor's (actually the filter pack) surface.
I say CAN, because it's not a given, it may or it may not, but better not to risk it.

This movement of dust whilst you clean is common.
The best way to combat it is to always use the wet clean swipe only in one direction.

I've done a quick how to a long time ago so you may have to search, but I think I covered it in there.
Basically what can happen is what you're getting, instead of lifting the dust off the sensor, the wet clean method can simply latch onto the dust spec and just drag it across the surface.

in all the years I've been doing this and seeing this, I've never seen any evidence to suggest that this also marks the surface of the sensor.
Think of it as wiping the crumbs off the table surface, the wetness of the wiping material acts as a sort of lubricant, and all you do is move the particles(whether crumbs or dust) across the surface.

So I always swipe in the same direction when I do a sensor clean. This way, if I'm moving the dust across the sensor, at least it's always across in one direction and not back and forth all the time.

I don't know of these VisibleDust swabs and VDust solution, but with the copperhill kit, you have a tapered swab and the idea is to use it only twice, once on each side of the tapered edge.
You swipe once for half of the sensor, flip the swab and use the other side of the tapered edge and swipe again in the same direction but this time for the other half of the sensor.
The copperhill kit's swab only covers about 2/3rds of the sensors vertical surface.

Make sure that the fluid you're using is also shaken excessively well. If it's diluted ethanol(as it's most likely to be), I've found that if the fluid is left sitting for long periods, it can separate and when used can leave streaks on the sensor surface. If you ever see anything like that, shaking the bottle well, and doing a final swipe will eliminate that streaking.

The other point I noted about your response was that you leave the camera facing up on a table. I tend to hold the camera up high, facing down and me looking upwards at it and doing the swiping.

One other small effective piece of kit I got, was this Sensor Brush from Copperhill. It's basically a paint brush but I don't exactly know the material used for the brush material itself.
This one tho works for dry usage, but only if there is minimal dust on the sensor, not for cleaning off the typical dust bunny problem.
What this brush does, is that you statically charge it on some supplied paper, and then lightly stroke it over the sensor. It's meant to pick up the worm like hair particles, more than clean off the small speck dust bunny gunk that bakes onto your sensor.
I also use it to brush off the dust off my mirror and viewfinder matter screen if there are any serious issues there.
In 6 years of use now, I still haven't seen any detrimental effects of it's use.

I also recommend against using rocket blowers or pumps for blowing out the mirror box and main body area too .. unless the pump is filtered.
I especially recommend against using them on your sensor, even tho they do no damage. All they seem to do is to blow concentrated blasts of dust onto the surfaces they're supposedly blowing dust off!
For that, I use canned air sprays. it's clean filtered, I use it on the sensor regularly and the only caveat is to never shake the can before use!
If the can is shaken or agitated in any way prior to use, let it settle for a while, or blow out a small burst of air into nowhere before use on a camera.

[Speedway]

Q1. What is the air pump you are using? It may be adding to the problem.
Q2. How much liquid are you putting on the swab? A couple of drops is usually sufficient.
Q3. How often are you changing swabs? I change them after each swab.
If blowing doesn't work put the blower away and just use the swabs. Wipe from one side rolling the swab over at the end of the stroke and lift it off, fit new swab repeat from same side to cover the whole sensor then repeat the whole process from the other side. Do not use the blower as this may be moving dust from other parts to the sensor. With heavily embedded dust you may have to repeat a few times and it can also be worth trying swabbing from top to bottom and vice-versa. I have a sensor brush which I find does the job most times. But if you get a brush make sure it is the correct one. Lens pens are no good for sensors.
Keith.

[William]

It's actually easy, Get ba good cleaning setup, Swabs ( Right size for sensor) , Fluid , Forget the Airsprays , It may take a few go's to get it off , Only use the swab once on a swipe , Turn over use again and then dump it

[achee]

Thanks guys!

The air pump is just an ordinary hand pump that you would use to pump up a ball, with a hose and a tapered blower attachment. I started using that because the author of this somewhat authoritative-looking site http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/wheretobuy.html suggested using an air-mattress-style foot-pump, but I don't have one.

I was using about 4 drops of solution. Ok, probably overdoing it.

I set out planning to use each swab once only (each side), but after my dismal results and considering the price for 4 swabs ($40) I did a bit of reusing!

Well, once I'm through with this VisibleDust kit I'll give CopperHill a go, seems like that's what we talk about the most here! But in the meantime... the VisibleDust stuff should be able to move the dust if I'm using it correctly, it cost me $80! $40 for the swabs and $40 for 8ml solution. I bought that because I wanted to do the job in a hurry and it was all I could find nearby off-the-shelf. It looks ligit - http://www.visibledust.com/

Maybe the swab is so wet that the dust is sitting in pools of solution on the sensor, and not sticking to the swab?? But 4 drops is within the manufacturer's 2-4 drop recommendation.

[William]

Hmmm !! Never heard of the Visable dust product , Give Copper hill a go , Or Eclipse which I use , Hope it has'nt damaged anything

[arthurking83]

Whoa!! $40 for 4 swabs??

The Copperhill kits have various levels of products contained within them, so look for one that suits you.
But the products they(can) include are: PecPads, a spatula thingy, and Eclipse fluid ... the kit O ordered included the sensor brush kit too.
I remember PecPads to cost very little per unit .. but nowhere near $10 each!!

May have been the reuse of a swab that cause your problem to begin with.. but then again maybe not.. as I use them only once(per side) and chuck em out.
I've been known to have used over 10 PecPads for a single cleaning session on one particularly difficult occasion.
I do sometimes use the used ones to clean LCD screens, or around the nooks and crannys of the camera body .. but only when I'm feeling completely bored!

[Duane Pipe]

Look what I did to my 450d sensor after a few sherbs
I cleaned it about 2 year ago and it hasnt been done since. I think I used every thing but a Jackhammer, I used cotton buds, a piece of plastic cut from a ice cream container wrapped with a lens cloth and lens cleaning solution and I think a snotty tissue as well

Both shots taken today f22 for the test image
I think that I have treated it in the worst possible way






I gave the camera to dad when I got the 7d

[arthurking83]

.....
I think that I have treated it in the worst possible way

.....

LOL! 'ya reckon?

Considering the treatment dished out, the images posted aren't as bad as most people would expect to see.
The only reason you can see any imperfections in the images is due to the flat nature of the images.
On a normal image with detail that is usually the point of focus in an image, I doubt that anyone would see any real effects caused by the mistreatment of the sensor.

A note too: remember that in front of the sensor is a series of filters for various reasons and purposes.
It's the front most filter that has been affected, not the actual sensor.

Replacement filters can be had, and even tho it's a complicated process of stripping the camera down to it's various pieces, it's not an overly expensive job if the owner is willing to do the labour themselves.

My (two) sensors both look pretty much pristine still, even tho earlier in the piece I was fanatical about sensor dust bunnies.. especially on the D70s. Less so with the D300, which could be due to the self cleaning mechanism it has.
I know I'm onto my 3rd(of 4 packs) of PecPads now, so I know I've cleaned it 'thoroughly' using the copperhill method.
And so after more than 6 years(D70s) and 4 years (D300), I'm pretty much convinced that the Copperhill method(Eclipse + PecPads) is pretty much as safe as you can get.

[Duane Pipe]

[QUOTE=arthurking83;1041108]LOL! 'ya reckon?

Yep It was enough damage that I wanted a new camera 7d But I think that this shows the amount of damage that you can do to a censor So dont be scared to do it yourself with the correct equipment

[zollo]

i've used Visible Dust fluid and swabs, and own the arctic butterfly and zeeion blower achee, they are definitely legit, but i gotta say, you overpaid for the kit.

as for the loose dust, i always use the arctic butterfly to remove loose particles before i do the wet sensor clean. it (arctic butterfly) works extremely well and there is no rubbing involved to get the static charge. I also have the zeeion anti static blower that is fantastic to use on a sensor because, well, its antistatic.

personally, i wouldnt use a hand or foot pump etc. the main reason being that the air could be oily (from the assembly/lubrication of the parts of the pump) in which case you are just blowing more muck onto the sensor.

also, during a clean be careful not to touch the mirror chamber with either the swabs or any brushes etc especially on the way in, as there is a fair bit of lubricant sprayed all down the sides by the mirror mechanism. if you clean your sensor and are repeatedly getting new spots fairly soon after, the chamber box will probably need a clean. after having to clean my sensor every 3 odd months, i cleaned the chamber on my d3x and it has remained spot free for 7 months now, impressed I am.

hope some of this helps someone

[Duane Pipe]

A bit off topic. Before I leave home I put the lens on that I think I will use most for the outing, In a sterile place.

here is what I do. I take the cap off the lens that is going on the camera but I always blow around the cap before removing it.
I then place the lens upright on a clean surface, then I blow around the camera body and lens before un-attatching, I then put the unattached lens upright on the clean surface and then put the clean cap on the other lens I always use the same back cap when swapping lenses and not one from the bottom of my bag. Make sense

[arthurking83]

A bit off topic. Before I leave home I put the lens on that I think I will use most for the outing, In a sterile place.

.....

Dave! You're kind'a wasting your time and efforts really .. here's why.

Changing lenses in itself is not really how or why the sensor collects dust onto itself.
The dust particles it collects are smaller than the small floaties loitering within the camera's mirror box assembly.
The dust specks are usually of a finer/smaller size than the stuff that settles in the mirror box area.
The dust that collects onto the sensor does so due to electrostatic attraction, that is, as the sensor is on, or operating, it has a charge around it that attracts dust specks.
The dust specks are smaller and more easily attracted to the sensor, whereas the larger particles usually fall onto whatever surface they can.

For the vast majority of its time, the sensor is actually well protected from the ingress of dust, even when changing lenses.
That is, you can easily change lenses in a dusty environment and not get dust on your sensor at all!
The fact that is well hidden and isolated behind a shutter is quite an important point to understand about this.
That is, if the shutter is not going to protect the sensor against massive dust particles, how is it expected to provide a light tight seal for correct exposure?
(photons are much smaller than dust specks!!)

What invariably happens is that dust does get into the camera body, and you can do all you like and take all the necessary precautions to minimise this, but the fact is that most dust gets into the camera chamber via the lens .. especially zoom lenses.
Very few, if any, are completely sealed from the miniscule particles of dust.

I haven't actually tried this myself, but I'm pretty sure that the Nikon 105VR lens is weather sealed to a degree. Maybe not entirely, but close to it, as it has a rubber sealing ring on the mount.
But the only real way to know for certain how dust gets onto a sensor is to do a long term trial using an unsealed vs a sealed lens test.

of course it's always better to be cautious when changing lenses, but don't be overzealous about it!
The chances are that it's the common every day usage of the camera that will attract dust to the sensor .... it's inevitable for a partially sealed camera design.