Access at motorsport

[kiwi]

Simply if someone is somewhere they shouldn't then the appropriate authorities should remove them

The other "issue" is where an organizer arranges a professional photographer to attend an event for professional quality coverage for media and their use. These days I will insist on exclusivity to attend (fir any chance of making it financially worthwhile - after all I'm running a business here). If I see anyone shooting with good gear then i will get you removed.

[atky]

What a load did you read the thread

(So the issue here is that someone that you don't really know shouldn't be allowed to give away freebies to their mates, and that only a (semi)pro is allowed to occasionally give away some freebies to some of their mates?

Is that the way I'm reading the issue?)


If you are get some new glasses

(Basically what you're saying is that I'm not allowed to come to a spot close to you, even if the organisers have allowed me that privilege! .. and shoot my 'ol man, my best mate, or my son all hooning around the track and get some photos for my purposes and/or theirs!!)


Now your seeing things

(And that only pros/semi pros are allowed to take shots of the competitors just so that have a larger audience to sell too, even if that may only be one or two customers that they miss out on!)

I said earn the privilege for access, also think I mentioned public areas somewhere

(this is a great example of ambassadorship for photography! .. a brilliant step in the right direction for the cause, I reckon!)

That is just crap I've helped shown and guided more amateur photogs than most

(I think if we all adhere to these philosophies strictly and teach them to all school children from prep to 3rd year tertiary, the end result is that basically we should all give away out cameras now.(why prolong the inevitable!))

More pifle

(While the designated areas are off limits today, tomorrow the entire venue will be off limits, and then the next ultimate step is that the entire world will become off limits to anyone with a camera that doesn't hold some form of accreditation to prove that only they have the ability to shoot with a camera. And this accreditation must specify that only people interested in making money from capturing photos can only be accredited .. and that's that.
And there is no ifs or butts to the matter .. this is the way it's going to end up otherwise all these poor pros will end up in the doghouse with no prospects.)


Where is this coming from get real, anyone can get accreditation just earn it


(MAAATE! You're more than welcome to come to my work and do what I do for free .. I'll take as much time off as you do it for free for, and sell my house and do a bit of travelling too.

But even if you do it fro free, you stuff it up once, and you get the arse! .. no if or butts!
They can afford the peanuts they pay me, but what they can't afford the stuffing up of a few grands worth of goods getting from one place to the next!)


I've been responsible for moving hundreds of pepole, heavy equipment, explosives ETC. I don't care what you do for a quid I'm not trying to undercut you or take your business, sell your house I wont mis you

(The moral of the story is that nothing beats quality .. and (most)people pay for quality.)

Simply wrong

(eg. if you got a Sigma SD-1 for free, would you then use it as your preferred camera over your pro level Canon and it's Canon lenses? Having the Sigma is restricting you to only Sigma lenses, and while some of them are great, there are many holes in the lineup compared to Canon/Nikon lenses.)


Odd I love a SD1 and if you look I use almost exclusively Sigma lens

(Like Redgum said .. being a pro is not about just taking good shots. It's about the ability to market sell and promote)


Yes and if you want to be pro you need to work and earn access


(A great pro is someone who does it all the time, even in competition to the myriad of freebies available out there!)

I think a pro would try to protect his business

(Darwin's theory comes to mind here!
It's simple.
If you don't adapt you die, and that's just a process that is now happening in the pro photographer community.
Those too lazy or tired to compete in the 'new world' are dyin, have died or will soon die.(not literally, photographically speaking)

Those that are regarded as great pro photographers simply have a better(or luckier) grasp of the current market, and have adapted to it better. )


Ha adapt lazy can't compete not only are those words insulting as they would to me be a thinly vialed personal insult think you should read the rules you are a moderator?

[atky]

Hm not showing new posts in index would love a reply

[ricktas]

Hm not showing new posts in index would love a reply

It only shows as not being in new posts, to you. Each member sees a different version of new posts, based on the threads and posts they have looked at. So whilst this doesn't show in new posts to you (cause you have already seen your last post and therefore there is nothing 'new' in this thread, for you) others see it in new posts if they have not looked at it.

New Posts is not generic for all members, it uses your cookie to keep track of what YOU have looked at etc, and YOUR New Posts is unique to you, as it is to every other member.

[FallingHorse]

Hmm, the primary issue here is whoever giving away all their photos for free to competitors. Free always beats good in the sport game. If I see a mum/dad/friend on a sideline with a 70-200 these days I just keep on walking

Lol - I am a mum on the sideline at my sons sports - armed with 70-200mm. Haven't given away shots yet. The stereo-typing sometimes gets a bit tiresome - yawn!

[geoffsta]

Is it Good Vs Evil .... Pro's Vs Hobbyist

[kiwi]

Lol - I am a mum on the sideline at my sons sports - armed with 70-200mm. Haven't given away shots yet. The stereo-typing sometimes gets a bit tiresome - yawn!

And I'm glad you don't, but unfortunately for me, it happens all the time. Stereotype ? No, reality, but I'm not really grumbling about it, i just move along, plenty of other customers and games to shoot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Speedway]

Is it Good Vs Evil .... Pro's Vs Hobbyist

No its those who have done their homework (Pro or Hobyist) and got the approval V those that just jump the fence and think they have every right to be there because you are.
Keith.

[camerasnoop]

Shit happens! I just get on with it.

[geoffsta]

There are good and evil in both camps.
Some pro's can be real annul about some poor old mum/dad or hobbyist, who want to either get some better shots of their friend/relatives with a decent camera, instead of a point and shoot. Or in the hobbyist case, have a bit of a go at sport photography. (Like myself or FallingHorse)

Some Hobbyist can be just as bad by thinking that because they have spent 3 - 5 grand on camera gear, they have every right to do as they please. So far I have spent about $13,000 on gear and still think I'm not in the same class as many members on here. I still respect the pro's. And if they are busy I wont go near them. But if they have a bit of quiet time I'm not affraid to go over for a chat. And if they tell me to bugger off (Not many do) I'll still respect them, but know that they are true Rsoles.

[ricktas]

Sounds like the same argument as Gerry Harvey and the online retailers he talks about so often. I don't believe any solution would ever be the best one for ALL concerned. It is just something we have to live with, and either let it get us down, or rise above it.

[atky]

I started sooting sport from the other side of the fence, got annoyed at not being able to shoot from the other side, made a lot of mistakes learned a lot of lessons made a lot of friends (one or two enemies) have always tried to say what I think. Have also tried to treat people with respect. Thing is photographers be they pro, semi pro, or armatures if they want to shoot with good access at motorsport learn the lessons make the contacts get the permission and pay the price. Even if you do all that and you want to take money out of my pocket I will be upset and will do what I can to keep the money in my pocket.
If you come to an event I have made arrangement with the organizer or promoter to have exclusive access to I will tell you to leave. Simple really, if another photographer has made a similar arrangement with a promoter or organizer I will respect that arrangement (I may shoot from public access area for fun but I most certainly would not offer my images for free and would direct any enquirers to the other photographer.
As for excluding any one from shooting I don't see that, I have done the work to get the exclusive access if you want the access you should do the work to gain it so the only one excluding anyone from events are the photographers not doing the work to get the access.
At motorsport events and the ones I have arrangements with allow all comers to shoot from public access areas, so if you want a picture of your dad son or friend you can get one just not one from the areas accredited photographers can shoot from. Is this right I think so, many of you out there don't if you don't, let me ask you some questions.
Do you know the safe places to be at a motorsport event?
Do you know when it is not just safe but allowed to cross a track?
Do you have knowledge of the differences in the behavior of a bike or a car when it crashes?
Are you willing to be drug alcohol tested as an event official?
Do you know what a red fag means?
Who has the final say in where you can be even inside the track?
Would you stand out there when its poring with rain ?
When its 40 c in the shade?
When you would rather be home at a BBQ?
When you should be with you old mates on ANZAC day?

[macmich]

i have insurance
i shoot the same club each year and was asked yesterday if i would be right for easter comp racing
i have insurance and have access to all areas of track
i sell my shots as full day discs or single shots and have got myself a few lenses from it
i do not by any means call myself a pro
but if any one is wandering where there not supposed to be i just advise them for there own safety to head back to safer areas
i shoot most of the time in dusty enviorment which cuts down visability again making it more dangerous to someone not aware
but as shooting around the outside of the track along as they are shooting within the safety zones i dont care if they try to sell there photos or not
i have the same people by mine each meeting and quite happy
i will put the camera down and put a cone or fix a tyre wall if hit while in the middle
but as far as other shooters its a great learning curve on panning for them and let them go i say as long as there safe
but in saying this if they break the rules of the event the marshalls should show them the gate for there own safety and that of the club
i will probably do a hour or two at easter due to back and see how it holds up
cheers macca

[lincoln]

I volunteered as a flaggie for years mainly at Oran Park, Eastern Creek and Phillip Island.
Not for the infield pix but for the love of the sport.
Still managed to grab a few good shots when not attending to marshalling duties and never had any problems with the pros.
Attended a surf carnival at Wanda Beach recently to record my son's activities in the surf boat comp. and chatted at length with the official photog.
Of course I respect the pro's right to make a buck and have never stood on any toes.
Excellent results can be obtained from the outfield in the right location - Turn 2 at Eastern Creek can be dramatic.
Siberia and MG at Phillip Island also work well. These locations best for light in the morning.
Turn 1 at Phillip Island can yield good shots - how's your panning at 250km/hr?

[atky]

Biaggi at 325 KPH on a superbike at Phillip Island Mist the shot buga.

[MMF]

if its restricted access then yes they should be removed if not properly accredited. It sounds to me that the person your referring to had gained access through other avenues and were taking advantage of it to try some shots. As a hobbyist I love going to event and taking photos as its a chance to increase my skills when i don't normally get the chance. If a pro said i was in the way or in a dangerous position then i'd move afterall its their job I'm just doing it for fun and my own collection.

[ricktas]

For those who saw the posts here last evening, before we moderated and removed them. The person who made the personal attacks, has been banned from AP.

[MaTBoY]

Wayneo I never called anybody a hack and we are all hobbyists at some point I'm probably more of a hobbyist at the moment. All I'm saying is if you think access is your rite think again.
The fact is most hobbyists are great and are good fun to interact with it's the semi pro (put me in that class) who has no respect or little understanding of the amount of time and work over a long period of time it takes to get the recognition from organizerss and officials that allows accesss.

So... just to clarify, would you be upset if you had to share a corner with a 'semi-pro/hobbyist' who had permission to be track side?

[Speedway]

The operative word here is permission.
Keith.

[atky]

So... just to clarify, would you be upset if you had to share a corner with a 'semi-pro/hobbyist' who had permission to be track side?

Not a problem at all and I do.