E520 In Low Light

[Dust Angel]

I find my E520 really struggles in low light. Does anyone else find this - do you have some tips n tricks that might help?

[ricktas]

Unfortunately this is the bane of Olympus. Oly chose to use the 4/3rd system and as such is using sensors that are much smaller than those that are placed into Nikon/Canon/Pentax/Sony (APS-C sensors and larger).

So you cram 10MP onto a smaller sensor, means each pixel site is smaller compared to 10MP on a APS-C or bigger sensor. Once you start making individual pixel sites smaller, pure physics comes into play regarding the amount of light that can hit each pixel site. The result is that noise will become apparent as you increase the ISO, at a much lower ISO than that on an equivalent sensor that is of an overall larger size.

Olympus camera's are great at low ISO, and they produce some truly stunning results. I find I like the colours straight out of Olympus cameras, but the trade off with the 4/3rd system is the smaller sensor is going to reach limitations.

[Dust Angel]

Well that makes sense, i have had similar explained to me before but i didn't really understand it. Thanks for the that! :D

[OlyE520]

I have the same problem and If I had known about this shortfall before buying an Oly, I probably would have purchased another brand as I enjoy shooting in low light. You can try a large apature lens like the Oly 50mm f2.0 or the Sigma 50mm f1.4. This will help in low light situations.

[olympuse620]

Low ISO is poor but there are some upsides - from what I have gathered from the net is that the Zuiko glass is outstanding and semi pro is affordable. The lenses are smaller for the same zoom as the Nikanon's (good for carrying around). As Rick mentioned the colours are excellent. The sensor cleaning is excellent. The IS is in the body which lowers the cost of a lens. it is not all doom and gloom.

[Wulfys Kingdom]

I find my E520 really struggles in low light. Does anyone else find this - do you have some tips n tricks that might help?

What type of low light are you in or using? You might find ways around it depending on your situation. My sigma 30mm is the worst for focusing in low light, yet it is the largest apeture out of the range I own. Meanwhile my 12-60 and 50-200 perform better being faster higher quality lenses.

I find I'm relatively happy with the performance, I know low light isnt the best in this system, but I havent been disappointed yet lol.

[Ross the fiddler]

I find my E520 really struggles in low light. Does anyone else find this - do you have some tips n tricks that might help?

I've got an Oly E520 & last year I bought the ZD14-54 II f2.8 lens with max aperture from 2.8 - 3.5 to go on it. It is a lovely lens & it has also made focusing a little easier & it is also a lot cheaper than the 12-60mm lens. I have since got the Oly E30 body & with the ISO going up to 3200 with ISO 200 being the point of maximum dynamic range, it captures some lovely shots. With faster shutter speed, duel wheel control, swivel screen, built in level meter (& the list goes on), it is a very nice, capable camera. You can get some good deals on the E30 now as the next generation could possibly be coming in September (or announced then).

As far as noise is concerned, sure you you can get some cleaner images from the latest Canikons, but what is often overlooked is the depth of field comparison. To get the same depth of field as f3.5 at 50mm on the Oly 4/3's cameras, it would be 2 stops (not sure of exact figures) up on a full frame camera which means the sensitivity needs to be 2 stops up to keep the same shutter speed. Therefore if you were using ISO 1600 on your E520, a full frame camera would need to be using ISO 6400 at the same shutter speed to achieve the same depth of field using about f6.3 or smaller (f7.2). Then with the E30 using ISO 3200, the full frame would be at 12,800.

As far as noise comparisons go, I recieved some photos of a particular event taken on a Canon 5D mark I at ISO 3200 & the noise was ugly, really ugly in the darker parts of the photos. I don't know if noise filtering was used, but one of the best noise filtering programs that would also work really well with photos from Oly cameras is Noise Ninja.

I love my Oly camera & there will always be the knockers.:lol2: I think it is great when I use my ZD 70-300 f3.5-5.6 lens that I have equivalent reach as a 600mm lens on a 35mm camera, all in a very manageable size & weight & nice quality too at a reasonable price.

Ross

[Scotty72]

As a former e520 owner, I can attest to the fact that ISO / noise were the bane of my existence.

Granted, if you are shooting outdoors with quality glass, the pics were brilliant.

But, about this time last year I gave long exposure night time photography a try. Yuck!

About the same time, my I tried to take pics of my daughter ice-skating in a low light indoor rink. Yuck!

It was about then I flogged my Oly stuff off and switched to Canon as, increasingly, I was finding myself photographing in poor light conditions.

I really think that Olympus have gotten on the wrong train with 4/3.

It is great for specific situations but, for all around work-horses. Yuck.

Scotty

[Ross the fiddler]

As I said, There will always be the knockers!

If you were using the E520 at night on auto ISO (assuming auto maximised to ISO 400) with auto gradation on, the shadows will go up to ISO 1600 & the result will be yuk! However, if it was set to ISO 100, gradation to normal (no shadow adjustment) with auto noise reduction on (to cancel out any noisy pixels for long exposure), the camera is capable of producing excellent night shots (so long as it is on a tripod) which I have done.

The Olympus E30 is a much better camera (on a par with the Canon 40D) than the E520 (which is on a par with Canon 450D) with increased ISO, larger view finder, inbuilt level meter, duel control wheels, swivel screen, faster continuous shutter speed, up to 1/8000 sec shutter time (instead of 1/4000 of sec) more dedicated buttons, lens auto focus adjustments, faster flash sync speed (1/250 sec), dedicated flash sync connecter & the list goes on. I enjoy using my Oly E30 which is a very capable camera.

If you are trying to achieve normal photos at night using available light, then you need to work within the limits of the camera. A poor tradesman will blame his tools, but a true craftsman will master his tools. It’s all about how you use your camera.

The Olympus cameras produce excellent JPEG’s but also have the ability to save RAW as well to enable further adjustments/choices later (eg change white balance, change certain camera settings) in Olympus Viewer 2 software (or Photoshop). There are other brands that are best taken in RAW as there JPEG’s are not what they could be & are best optimised in Photoshop. Each to their own!

Those that give up on Olympus are either pushing the limits of ISO or don’t use their cameras to the best of their abilities. To criticise a lower level Olympus & compare it to a higher level Canon is not being honest with themselves or others. While Olympus may not achieve as high an ISO as some other cameras, they are getting better & produce excellent results.

I am really pleased with the ability of my Oly E30 & its results.

Ross

[peterb666]

Each new Olympus model is just a little better with low light. The E-520 is getting a bit old now, the E-620 replaced it and was considered to be a reasonable improvment. The E-P1 another slight improvement, with some tweaking of the latest E-PL1.

I am sure the next E-6xx or E-3 replacement etc. will again move forward. If you have an investment in Olympus glass, then it may be worthwhile seeing what comes to market later this year.

Cheers

PeterB666

[Ross the fiddler]

Each new Olympus model is just a little better with low light. The E-520 is getting a bit old now, the E-620 replaced it and was considered to be a reasonable improvment. The E-P1 another slight improvement, with some tweaking of the latest E-PL1.

I am sure the next E-6xx or E-3 replacement etc. will again move forward. If you have an investment in Olympus glass, then it may be worthwhile seeing what comes to market later this year.

Cheers

PeterB666


Thanks PeterB666,
I had written a response earlier but the page could not be found when I tried to upload it & everything disappeared. I was trying to think of what I was saying before & this was it. The PEN's are using the same sensor as the E30/E620 & the results are getting better & better.:wd: I'm looking forward to the new generation Ex, Exx & Exxx models too which will possibly be seen at Photokina in September.

Ross

[peterb666]

Well I want a semi-pro PEN with some glass to match. A compact fast wide to mid zoom would be nice in MFT.

[Scotty72]

Well, I was taking 10 sec night exposures. 10 sec is not an unreasonable length of time.

I had the tripod, noise reduction etc.

Each and every pic was dotted with red all over... Now, I understand that loooong exposures can do this - but 10 secs... Come on!

As I said, apart from this 1 aspect - it was a great camera...

But in low light, as you hinted; it is a boy playing in a man's world. lol

BTW, I never use auto iso. ever... Of course, for long exposure - 100.

[Ross the fiddler]

Well, I was taking 10 sec night exposures. 10 sec is not an unreasonable length of time.

I had the tripod, noise reduction etc.

Each and every pic was dotted with red all over... Now, I understand that loooong exposures can do this - but 10 secs... Come on!

As I said, apart from this 1 aspect - it was a great camera...

But in low light, as you hinted; it is a boy playing in a man's world. lol

BTW, I never use auto iso. ever... Of course, for long exposure - 100.

The noise reduction can be selected as AUTO (to come on at a certain length of time, which should be under 10 secs), OFF or ON. Did you try it as ON? If so, you must have had a faulty camera which should have been dealt with under warranty (or did this occur after warranty?).

Ross

[Ross the fiddler]

Well I want a semi-pro PEN with some glass to match. A compact fast wide to mid zoom would be nice in MFT.

Patience.

There is a good chance a higher end PEN will be announced/released in September. Olympus is on a roll with the PEN line (that was not meant to be any sort of pun) & will take advantage of the present interest & market success, but don't expect it to replace the abilities of the E3/E30 even though it should be really good.

Ross

[Anne1958]

I love my Oly camera & there will always be the knockers.:lol2:

I love my Oly camera too and totally agree re: the knockers but it seems to me that it doesn't matter what brand of camera you use there will always be someone knocking your choice of equipment :confused013




Those that give up on Olympus are either pushing the limits of ISO or don’t use their cameras to the best of their abilities. To criticise a lower level Olympus & compare it to a higher level Canon is not being honest with themselves or others. While Olympus may not achieve as high an ISO as some other cameras, they are getting better & produce excellent results

well said Ross :th3:



Each new Olympus model is just a little better with low light.

I am sure the next E-6xx or E-3 replacement etc. will again move forward. If you have an investment in Olympus glass, then it may be worthwhile seeing what comes to market later this year.

I for one am eagerly awaiting the next E-3 replacement :efelant: I've already started saving my $$$ :p

[Wulfys Kingdom]

Well, I was taking 10 sec night exposures. 10 sec is not an unreasonable length of time.

I had the tripod, noise reduction etc.

Each and every pic was dotted with red all over... Now, I understand that loooong exposures can do this - but 10 secs... Come on!

As I said, apart from this 1 aspect - it was a great camera...

But in low light, as you hinted; it is a boy playing in a man's world. lol

BTW, I never use auto iso. ever... Of course, for long exposure - 100.

Was the 10 sec exposures with ISO 100? I had the E510 and it was as noisy as hell if the ISO hit 800 or higher but at 100 I cant see any noise on the few pics I took with 15 sec exposure.

[Scotty72]

Yes, the iso was at 100 for long exp. Of course. It was long exposure noise. Perhaps I did have a dodgy sensor but, the criticism still stands, at anything over 400, the 4/3 runs into serious limitations ( ust as a full frame user may giggle at the limitations of a crop sensor)

To characterise any disagreement as just 'knockers' is simply using emotion to avoid the issue.

I am actually an Olympus fan. It was my first DSLR at to be honest, I regard the camera and the lenses as superior and all I did was in good light, then Oly all the way.

Or, if Oly went with 1.6x rather than 4/3.

I just feel they caught the wrong train.

Scott


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ross the fiddler]

at anything over 400, the 4/3 runs into serious limitations

Correction, the E520 starts to get noisy over 400 ISO, but the E30 takes great pictures at least up to 800 ISO & now the PEN's are doing even better.

Ross

[Wulfys Kingdom]

Yes, the iso was at 100 for long exp. Of course. It was long exposure noise. Perhaps I did have a dodgy sensor but, the criticism still stands, at anything over 400, the 4/3 runs into serious limitations ( ust as a full frame user may giggle at the limitations of a crop sensor)


Yeh, I'm thinking something is wrong or different here, at 100 for 10 sec there shouldnt be any... Olympus cameras aren't that bad lol.

[peterb666]

I was shooting in low light recently and also wanted to do HDR so I had exposure bracketing on. With bracketing, you can take 3 individual shots or use sequential shooting.

I was surprised that my images were very noisy with a fair few hot pixels and salt and pepper noise all over. These exposures were typically 4 to 8 second exposures at ISO100 and 200 and the camera (E-P1) normally does a smashing job. After looking through the camera manual a bit, I discover that noise reduction is turned OFF when using sequential shooting. D'oh - that's what I did wrong!

I just did some test shots at 60s and let's just say the difference is phenomenal. I won't be doing that again. With noise reduction and single shot, no hot pixels and very little salt and pepper noise.

I don’t know about the E-520, but if it behaves the same, make sure you DO NOT have sequential shooting turned on for long exposures.

[Ross the fiddler]

I was shooting in low light recently and also wanted to do HDR so I had exposure bracketing on. With bracketing, you can take 3 individual shots or use sequential shooting.

I was surprised that my images were very noisy with a fair few hot pixels and salt and pepper noise all over. These exposures were typically 4 to 8 second exposures at ISO100 and 200 and the camera (E-P1) normally does a smashing job. After looking through the camera manual a bit, I discover that noise reduction is turned OFF when using sequential shooting. D'oh - that's what I did wrong!

I just did some test shots at 60s and let's just say the difference is phenomenal. I won't be doing that again. With noise reduction and single shot, no hot pixels and very little salt and pepper noise.

I don’t know about the E-520, but if it behaves the same, make sure you DO NOT have sequential shooting turned on for long exposures.

Thats what I had discovered when it first happened to me & had changed my setting accordingly (from multi shutter to single shutter), but that was at least 18 months ago, so that I had forgotten about that & yes, the E520 is the same.

Ross

[sketty]

I had similar problems when I first started using my 620, but really the problem was me not understanding what I was doing properly as I've since conquered most of those issues (noise and struggling focus). I've since taken nightscapes with 60sec exposures and no noise issues at all (at ISO 100).

At the time I was thinking I'd made a mistake going 4/3s but once I figured out what I was doing (and especially after I got the 12-60:)) I reaffirmed that I made the right choice for me. The Oly high grade bodies and lenses are great quality and relatively affordable, and my system is reasonably small and easy to carry about which was a major point for me. I also like going with the outsider and an innovative upstart :D

I wouldn't bother getting into comparisons/battles with APS-C or FF sensors. Whatever suits you is the best system for you - they all have advantages over others. 4/3 isn't great at the super high ISOs, but they are catching up (the 620 is good to 800, usable to 1600).

[Ross the fiddler]

I had similar problems when I first started using my 620, but really the problem was me not understanding what I was doing properly as I've since conquered most of those issues (noise and struggling focus). I've since taken nightscapes with 60sec exposures and no noise issues at all (at ISO 100).

At the time I was thinking I'd made a mistake going 4/3s but once I figured out what I was doing (and especially after I got the 12-60:)) I reaffirmed that I made the right choice for me. The Oly high grade bodies and lenses are great quality and relatively affordable, and my system is reasonably small and easy to carry about which was a major point for me. I also like going with the outsider and an innovative upstart :D

I wouldn't bother getting into comparisons/battles with APS-C or FF sensors. Whatever suits you is the best system for you - they all have advantages over others. 4/3 isn't great at the super high ISOs, but they are catching up (the 620 is good to 800, usable to 1600).

Sounds like you have a nice setup. I have the 14-54 II on the E30 (which I have been ear bashing everybody with) & it works nice. I went for that lens initially to put to put on my E520 because I wanted to take people shots in live view with its larger aperture & bigger zoom range than the 14-42 kit lens. That priority is much less now for the CD-AF in live view & the faster, quieter focusing of the 12-60 would be even more appreciated, but with it being heavier, larger filter thread & nearly double the price of the 14-54 II, I've had to settle for what I have & still love it.

Doing battles is pointless as you say, but I get started when critiscisms of Olympus gear is made in ignorance or misunderstanding. It's a bit unfortunate if you've sold your gear out of disatification with it arising from insufficient knowledge of it's functions & operations. The manuals may not explain everything as well as it could, but there are sights like Photo tidbits of the Olympus E-System by J. Andrzej Wrotniak that are very helpful in getting the most of of your Oly E system cameras.

I've taken night shots that were long on the E520 too & a 60 sec shot takes a little while as it takes the 60 seconds noise reduction exposure after it, then because I like to save every thing as SF JPEG + RAW, it takes just that much longer, but it is worth it. One thing to remember, don't get impatient during that time & pickup the camera to run with it, as it will change the auto aspect of it when saving it. Your landscape photo might be saved in portrait position instead. Not much of a concern, as it can easily be rotated in camera, but it can happen nonetheless.

Ross

[Ross the fiddler]

I would like to show 2 of my photos. The first was taken with single frame to show how not too bad a noise is seen in a photo despite it being at ISO 400 plus Auto Gradation On (auto shadow adjustment) at low noise filter setting for 5 secs.
53655

& then later with ISO 100 but because the sequential shutter drive was on it disabled the noise reduction & shows some hot pixels. Auto gadation is off so doesn't highlight the shadows with bringing up the noise but was for 60 seconds & noise filter setting is also off (must have been experimenting).
53656

With careful attention to settings, it is possible to get some nice night photos. I was still just learning to take night shots when these were taken & I'm still learning.

I hope this is of some benefit to those with questions on noise & hot pixels in longer exposures.

Ross

[nissanman]

Ive got a E-620, ive taken a few low-light and night shots with it, (nothing worth posting) but as far as i could tell it was not noisy at ISO 100. Only thing i had trouble with was blur due to handheld and shutter speed.

Cheers,

J

[Ross the fiddler]

Ive got a E-620, ive taken a few low-light and night shots with it, (nothing worth posting) but as far as i could tell it was not noisy at ISO 100. Only thing i had trouble with was blur due to handheld and shutter speed.

Cheers,

J

Yes they do it OK, but buy a tripod :D & a remote cable (can be generic off ebay) or use timer on camera or shutter delay (anti-shake).

The last post of course was to show poor choice in settings gives poor results in image, although it can be knudged if needed. The use of Noise Ninja or Neat Image are also very good to clean up anything that does show noise. The E620 & E30 does do better than the E520 for ISO range though.

Enjoy yor E620.

Ross

[Wulfys Kingdom]

I have a question - someone told me that when cleaning up noise in noise programs, Olympus images retain better detail compared to some other camera brand images? I dont know whether it's been tested side by side or anything or whether it's just an observation. Has anybody heard/seen/read this or can verify? Thought it might be appropriate to ask here?

[peterb666]

I have a question - someone told me that when cleaning up noise in noise programs, Olympus images retain better detail compared to some other camera brand images? I dont know whether it's been tested side by side or anything or whether it's just an observation. Has anybody heard/seen/read this or can verify? Thought it might be appropriate to ask here?

Recent Olympus models started to become competitive from the E-620 onwards. Each new model brings about an incrimental improvement. The most recent is the E-PL1 which DPreview reckon is doing a better job than the Nikon D3000 and they also comment is a match for the Canon EOS 500D an Pentax K-x.

Review of Olympus E-PL1 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusepl1/page17.asp)

[Wulfys Kingdom]

Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read.

[telemeister]

Interesting discussion guys. I went back to have a look at my low light shots. The highest ISO I have is 1600 with a 1.3sec shutter speed and there isn't much noise at all (using tripod, f5). I have 1600 ISO shots with 60 sec speed that have a bit of noise (f/11) (although there are a lot of things wrong with those photos, so there could also be other factors contributing). The other ones I have are 1/5 sec speed at 800 ISO (f/4.5), again, not much noise. These photos were taken indoors in a very dark cathedral. Finally, the photos I have taken on tripods at night with ISOs of 100, 200 or 400 all have no noise.

[Roosta]

After reading all that feedback Dust Angel, I believe you've got a capable camera, and like me, probally need to get out there and try different things - settings - iso and the like and see for ourselves. I feel you can get some great ideas for settings from some of the above text (I know I did, but don't know if my older unit can do half those things)and have a go, show us some of your pics. If I can get the quailty of shot that i'm happy with and my brother inlaw was impressed with (Nikon D90 owner) well, whats stopping you from experimenting???? Have fun.

[Roosta]

Interesting discussion guys. I went back to have a look at my low light shots. The highest ISO I have is 1600 with a 1.3sec shutter speed and there isn't much noise at all (using tripod, f5). I have 1600 ISO shots with 60 sec speed that have a bit of noise (f/11) (although there are a lot of things wrong with those photos, so there could also be other factors contributing). The other ones I have are 1/5 sec speed at 800 ISO (f/4.5), again, not much noise. These photos were taken indoors in a very dark cathedral. Finally, the photos I have taken on tripods at night with ISOs of 100, 200 or 400 all have no noise.

What camera and lens set up have you used mostly to get your lowlight results?

[telemeister]

What camera and lens set up have you used mostly to get your lowlight results?

Hey,
I have an E520 used with a 40-150mm lens (f/4.0-5.6) (standard kit lens). The noisy photo at 1600 had was at 61mm for 13 seconds with an f/11. The photo is pretty dreadful, but I as really just experimenting with the camera and seeing what each of the settings do.

The other photos, with little noise, were taken with the same camera and lens with exposure of around 1.3 seconds and f stop of 4 to 5.

The night was a complete experiment for me and the photos aren't very good, but there isn't a huge amount of noise in them with the exception of the 1600 ISO