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View Full Version : France/Germany (and now Aussie Govt) call on users to abandon Internet Explorer



Miaow
19-01-2010, 9:04am
hehe Microsoft won't like this :D

French Government calls on internet users to abandon Internet Explorer (http://www.news.com.au/world/french-government-calls-on-internet-users-to-abandon-internet-explorer/story-e6frfkz9-1225821051753)

Calls to ditch Internet Explorer after China hacks (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/security/calls-to-ditch-internet-explorer-after-china-hacks-20100118-mfef.html)

Kym
19-01-2010, 11:14am
AP officially recommend Firefox and suggest members avoid IE where possible.
Safari and Opera are good alternates.

IE 6 is a security hole - please upgrade to IE 7 or better still IE 8 if you do intend to continue with IE.

Jan 2010 AP usage Statistics...
Firefox 40.3 % (V3.5 31.9%)

MS Internet Explorer V8 28.5 %
MS Internet Explorer V7 11.9 %
MS Internet Explorer V6 3.5 % <<<<< THIS IS A HUGE WORRY !!

Safari 8.6 %
Google Chrome 4.6 % (Has been know to have issues on AP)
Opera 1 %

Kym
19-01-2010, 11:34am
Oh... some reasons why Firefox (or Opera or Safari) are more secure than IE...

http://www.io.com/~cwagner/spyware/appendix.html (Old but the principals are valid)

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/6-reasons-why-firefox-is-safer-than-internet-explorer/

http://www.itworld.com/security/93045/dump-internet-explorer-now

Scotty72
19-01-2010, 12:30pm
I tried Firefox (still do sometimes).

But, it still has lot of issues of compatability with a number of websites.

Am tyoing on IE8 now.

Scotty

Clubmanmc
19-01-2010, 3:48pm
Opera 1 %

I am that 1 % as i use Opera Mini on my E71 Nokia phone... and it works a treat!! easy to read and easy to keep in contact even on the go... :D sadly i use IE 7 at work as we are not allowed to ditch it...

:(

M

Kym
19-01-2010, 4:40pm
I tried Firefox (still do sometimes).
But, it still has lot of issues of compatibility with a number of websites.

Which is because some web sites are programmed to the NON STANDARD M$ ONLY way of doing thing rather than following industry standards as do Firefox, Opera, Safari etc.
That is completely those web site providers and M$ fault.

FWIW: Most sites nowadays handle non M$ browsers properly. There are very few sites that are IE only. In part this is due to the fact that IE 8 has moved closer to proper standards support.

Edit: For AP work I develop and test with Firefox; then IE only once I'm ready to deploy. IE is the 'after thought'.

ving
19-01-2010, 4:43pm
I am that 1 % as i use Opera Mini on my E71 Nokia phone... and it works a treat!! easy to read and easy to keep in contact even on the go... :D sadly i use IE 7 at work as we are not allowed to ditch it...

:(

M+1

also opera user.... i even DL it and installed it at work :) hope they dont mind :rolleyes:

jim
19-01-2010, 6:22pm
We actually have a few Opera users, and at least one is quite fanatical about it. Naming no names.

It used to really give me the shits when a web site you had to use—eg a financial institution—wouldn't work in a proper browser, and their "help" staff would tell you "Oh, we only support IE" Happens less nowadays thank heaven.

Speedway
19-01-2010, 6:43pm
The only problems I have with firefox are on banking sites. For this I am forced to use IE.
Keith.

ricktas
19-01-2010, 7:07pm
The only problems I have with firefox are on banking sites. For this I am forced to use IE.
Keith.

Thank banking issue is caused by a firefox add-on, not firefox itself. It is caused by the AVG safe search add-on. In firefox, click in tools, add-ons and disable the AVG safe search, then try again on your banking site.

Miaow
19-01-2010, 7:09pm
Kevin - I found Firefox and secure sites plays up with the AVG safe search plugin - if you have AVG disable the AVG Safe Search add-on in firefox and the banking runs WAY faster ans does any secure site

Edited to add: Notice Rick beat me to it as I was posting :D

ving
19-01-2010, 7:22pm
The only problems I have with firefox are on banking sites. For this I am forced to use IE.
Keith.
opera 10.10 works fine with banking sites :)

Tannin
19-01-2010, 7:25pm
Firefox ... still has lot of issues of compatability with a number of websites.

This is just wrong.

Saying "Firefox has compatibility issues with websites" is like saying "My speelchecker iz brroken bcoz eet hs poot rede uinderlines unda thees whole sentense".

Firefox is highly compatible with the international standard that govern web design. Firefox doesn't have compatibility issues, the site has problems if it doesn't work with a standards-compliant browser like Firefox. If you find a broken site, tell the webmaster to lift his game. This isn't 1997 anymore.

ving
19-01-2010, 7:31pm
This is just wrong.

Saying "Firefox has compatibility issues with websites" is like saying "My speelchecker iz brroken bcoz eet hs poot rede uinderlines unda thees whole sentense".

Firefox is highly compatible with the international standard that govern web design. Firefox doesn't have compatibility issues, the site has problems if it doesn't work with a standards-compliant browser like Firefox. If you find a broken site, tell the webmaster to lift his game. This isn't 1997 anymore.+1


(ps, when did we start doing this "+1" thing anyhow?)

Tannin
19-01-2010, 7:41pm
Oh, I forgot to say: anyone still using Internet Explorer after all these years and all those warnings, and those millions upon millions of computers brought down through IE exploits ... anyone that determined to do themselves harm deserves what they get.

Right now there is a fair size pile of infected machines sitting in my workshop awaiting disinfection and cleanup. There are always a few, sometimes more, sometimes less. This week, there are more than usual, and I'm going to have to put in a lot of extra hours over the next couple of days to get them all done.

On the one hand, this makes me frustrated because I know perfectly well that close to 50% of the infections are caused by Internet Explorer's security vulnerabilities, and there is hours and hours of extra work I'll have to do to repair them all. If the owners had even the inkling of a clue, they would have used Opera or Firefox and I wouldn't have to fix their computers.I'm tired and don't want to do all that overtime!

On the other hand, I'll be well paid for my time and I'm thinking about a 1D IV so the extra cash will come in handy.

But think about it: if those idiots had enough sense to do what the security experts have been advising them to do for year after year after year, they wouldn't be without their computers right now, I would be getting home at a reasonable hour, and my 1D IV would be some hundreds of dollars further away.

So here is the deal, all you die-hard Internet Explorer users. Why don't you all move up here to Ballarat and I'll keep your systems running for you. It will mean even longer hours for me, but at $6500 for a Mark IV, I need all the virus removal jobs I can get, and as long as people run Internet Explorer, I will never run out of work.

I @ M
19-01-2010, 7:48pm
If you find a broken site, tell the webmaster to lift his game. This isn't 1997 anymore.

I did exactly that with the trading post (http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Home?state=ALL_STATES) some time ago when their site wouldn't display "further details" in firefox.
The email I received in response went along the lines of " sorry but we designed our site for the browser that the majority use -- IE".
Oh well, I guess it is pretty good business practice to ignore 40% of the market place, but then again, the trading post is owned by tel$tra ----------- :D

Kym
19-01-2010, 8:20pm
+1
(ps, when did we start doing this "+1" thing anyhow?)

Indicating one more who agrees / votes for this. meh!

Kym
19-01-2010, 8:23pm
The Trading post now works with Firefox - they obviously came into the 21st century.

Tannin
19-01-2010, 8:47pm
Owned by Telstra? Good grief. How did the gutless, toothless ACCC ever let that one get through? That is an absolute disgrace.

Kym
19-01-2010, 9:26pm
Owned by Telstra? Good grief. How did the gutless, toothless ACCC ever let that one get through? That is an absolute disgrace.

Yup! And the ditched the paper publication. Its now a crappy eBay knock off.

Tannin
19-01-2010, 9:40pm
Hmmm .. so we get a choice of evil foreign monopoly (Ebay/Google/Paypal) vs evil domestic monopoly (Telstra). Well, at least Google are generally fairly competent and only evil now and again when it suits them, as opposed to ..... well, we all know what Telstra are.

Errr ... what was the question?

(Scolls up to top of thread, refreshes memory)

Oh, Internet Explorer.

Well, seeing as I was talking about evil, incompetent monopolies, I maintain that I was, in fact, still on-topic. Sort of. Telstra, by the way, are also responsible (sorry, I actually mean "irresponsible") for what is without doubt the worst major website design and codebase I have ever, ever seen - I understand they have farmed it out to a marginally less incompetent subcontracter recently and it can actually load, given a fast connection and a big modern computer, in less than a week now, but www.afl.com remains the ruling champion of all that is worst about the web.

Errr ... what was the question again?

clm738
19-01-2010, 10:43pm
On the news NOW warning Australians NOT TO LAUNCH INTERNET EXPLORER because of security concerns.

coolie21
19-01-2010, 10:43pm
It's not that Internet Expolder is evil. It's just crap.
If it wasn't for the corporate support IE would have gone the way of evolution and died like the dinosaur it is. Pah.

Kym
20-01-2010, 11:17am
Even the Aussie Govt is saying something http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/19/2795684.htm

mikew09
20-01-2010, 11:45am
Don't care - been a firefox man for quite some time. Will be going iMac very soon so even less concerned about viruses, hacking etc.
I do like the windows system for usage but the last couple of yrs it has just become a playground for hackers and the amound of system over head for Virus engine / scanner, firewall management, Malware tools etc has become rediculous.
I think very soon Bill will have to spend some of his billions getting that UNIX based OS running under his desktop or he may have to change Microsoft to Microflop.

ving
20-01-2010, 11:54am
hop on aboard peeps. this inn not an anti IE thing or even a anti MS thing its not about hating one system and loving another... its security and that is far more important.

Tannin
20-01-2010, 12:02pm
Oh, I forgot to say: anyone still using Internet Explorer after all these years and all those warnings .....
Right now there is a fair size pile of infected machines sitting in my workshop awaiting disinfection and cleanup. .... This week, there are more than usual, and I'm going to have to put in a lot of extra hours over the next couple of days to get them all done ... this makes me frustrated because I know perfectly well that close to 50% of the infections are caused by Internet Explorer's security vulnerabilities, and there is hours and hours of extra work I'll have to do to repair them all. ..... I'm tired and don't want to do all that overtime!


Another three have come in so far today and it's only just lunchtime.

I don't know how many of those were caused by Internet Explorer - one or two out of the three would be average - but the length of the queue is getting a bit out of hand.

sigh

Kym
20-01-2010, 12:22pm
Another three have come in so far today and it's only just lunchtime.
I don't know how many of those were caused by Internet Explorer - one or two out of the three would be average - but the length of the queue is getting a bit out of hand.
sigh

But how will you pay for a 1D-IV without all those customers? :D

Scotty72
20-01-2010, 12:32pm
Whatever!

I was just saying that Firefox and some websites don't mix.


It doesn't matter if it is because the shoe is too small or my foot is too big... The problem exists all the same.

Scotty


This is just wrong.

Saying "Firefox has compatibility issues with websites" is like saying "My speelchecker iz brroken bcoz eet hs poot rede uinderlines unda thees whole sentense".

Firefox is highly compatible with the international standard that govern web design. Firefox doesn't have compatibility issues, the site has problems if it doesn't work with a standards-compliant browser like Firefox. If you find a broken site, tell the webmaster to lift his game. This isn't 1997 anymore.

Kym
20-01-2010, 12:38pm
I was just saying that Firefox and some websites don't mix.
Then complain to those website owners/webmasters - tell them to grow up. :cool:

Scotty72
20-01-2010, 12:44pm
Then complain to those website owners/webmasters - tell them to grow up. :cool:

It really doesn't bother me enough to lift a finger of complaint.

I have Firefox, IE and Chrome. So if one has issues, there are 2 more.

Scotty

Tannin
20-01-2010, 1:03pm
It doesn't matter if it is because the shoe is too small or my foot is too big... The problem exists all the same.

No. You cannot change the size of your foot. The bootmaker must change the size of the boot.

Similarly, there are formal, internationally-agreed official standards for website design. Every properly trained and competent person in the industry knows about them and follows them as routine. Every competently-designed web browser does the same. (If you like, I can provide you with chapter and verse references and enough reading to make your eyes glaze over.) If the page design follows the rules, the page will work in any modern browser. If it ignores the rules, then it will most likely break. Firefox does a much better job of following the international standards than Internet Explorer. Much better.

Tannin
20-01-2010, 1:04pm
But how will you pay for a 1D-IV without all those customers? :D

Someone will just send me the money?

I @ M
20-01-2010, 1:11pm
The Trading post now works with Firefox - they obviously came into the 21st century.

So it does. :D

It must be more than 12 months ago that I last tried it when it didn't work --- so I never bothered going back for another look since.
I wonder how many other people simply "switched off" on that site or any other that doesn't work with their chosen browser?

Speedway
20-01-2010, 2:19pm
Thanks for the info Rick, all fixed. Deleting IE now.
Keith.

Miaow
20-01-2010, 5:17pm
interesting thing using cc cleaner i always find a heap of stuff in the IE cache? and i dont use it????

redstocks
20-01-2010, 5:58pm
OK, can someone explain it to me....................

I realise I can download Firefox, when it's installed do I just click on that to use the internet?

Can IE still remian on the hard drive?

If I'm using Firefox and can't get onto a site (I'm thinking internet banking here cos I use three banks regularly each week) can I then open IE alongside Firefox to do the banking or whatever?

I @ M
20-01-2010, 6:06pm
OK, can someone explain it to me....................

I realise I can download Firefox, when it's installed do I just click on that to use the internet?

YES, do it.

Can IE still remian on the hard drive?

YES but preferably don't do it, dump IE instead.

If I'm using Firefox and can't get onto a site (I'm thinking internet banking here cos I use three banks regularly each week) can I then open IE alongside Firefox to do the banking or whatever?

YES But the best option is to use firefox and then tell your bank / banks that since they don't build websites that support firefox that you are going to a bank that does. :D

Scotty72
20-01-2010, 6:16pm
Thanks for the info Rick, all fixed. Deleting IE now.
Keith.

I didn't think you could completely delete IE.

Can you?

Scotty

Tannin
20-01-2010, 6:17pm
I realise I can download Firefox, when it's installed do I just click on that to use the internet? Yes


Can IE still remian on the hard drive? Yes. In fact, it should, because IE is needed for some particular tasks*, notably Windows Update, which is essential. Just don't ever use it to surf the web.

If I'm using Firefox and can't get onto a site (I'm thinking internet banking here cos I use three banks regularly each week) can I then open IE alongside Firefox to do the banking or whatever? Yes But do that with the likes of Firefox, Opera, and Seamonkey, not with Internet Explorer. Why would anyone even half-sane want to use the most insecure browser on the market for the most security-critical tasks? It just doesn't make sense.

Right now, I'm not aware of any internet banking site in Australia which doesn't work just fine with all the major browsers. (I'm not saying there isn't one, just that if there is, I haven't heard of it. I know for a fact that Commonwealth, Westpac and NAB work just fine with all browsers, and that ANZ used to, presumably still does.)

But if, by some chance, your bank's internet banking software is so bad that it doesn't work with the safe, modern browsers, how much trust can you afford to put in the institution at all? Would you deposit money at a bank that didn't know how to build a secure strong room? No? So why would you deposit money with a bank that doesn't understand internet security? Close your account pronto! You can't afford to take those sort of risks.


-----------------

* Note for pedants: yes, of course there are workarounds. If you are enough of a geek to know about them, then you don't need any of the advice in this thread, and you will only confuse people if you make a song and dance at this point.