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ricktas
20-04-2012, 8:41am
The mods and I have been reading and discussing a couple of threads on the site

This one about 'cheating' in competitions (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?102781-Cheating-in-Comps-%21%21) and this one about whether competitions are good or not (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?102890-Competitions-good-thing-or-not)

We have decided to give you the chance to show us, and the other members what you have been talking about.
So the theme for the POTW that will open this Sunday evening for entries (22nd April 2012), will be changed
and related to your posts and comments in these threads.

The Photo of the Week theme will be
Photographic 'Cheating' : A composite of two or more photos

Looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with, for this one

Seabee
20-04-2012, 10:39am
LOL.................the masses have spoken..........will they like the outcome :lol:
This will be interesting indeed.

geoffsta
20-04-2012, 6:16pm
I started reading this and I thought that the basis of the idea was that a member would load two images. One virtually straight from the camera, and the same image stacked full of all the software tricks that one could muster to try and win the comp.

But on reflection, it would be hard to police. I have never tried a composite image, apart from a panoramic. So this maybe a chance to start.

Mark L
20-04-2012, 8:48pm
I have never tried a composite image, apart from a panoramic. So this maybe a chance to start.
I'm with you Geoff.
I might cheat and enter an image that may look like a composite of images! :)

Kerrie
20-04-2012, 8:57pm
Sorry.....but being new I need to ask.....

What is a composite image? Or are you required to load 2 separate photos - raw no pp, then pp shot? Is composite 2 or more images made into one?

:confused013

ricktas
20-04-2012, 9:00pm
A composite photo is one single photo that is made up by merging/blending 2 or more photos into one.

For example taking the sky from one photo and adding it to a second scene. Or taking people from one photo and placing them on an entirely different background, etc

teaco
20-04-2012, 10:18pm
I'm trying to find the thread that will tell me how to enter competitions... can you help me out?

ScottM
20-04-2012, 10:28pm
I was thinking about entering a composite, but post-comp posting the original and those it also included. Maybe a generic thread where anyone could post similarly after the final vote?
Teaco: towards the top of any page is a Competitions link. This will show for example as "Competitions 2,1" where 2=number of open comps you can enter, and 1=number you can still vote on. Click that link and it'll show them all. At the top is the main entry area. Click the radio button for which comp to enter, then an optional title below, a filename box (with Browse button), and below it an 'Upload' button. This comp isn't open yet, so try in a couple days. (I think it's Sunday from memory that comps open?)

mongo
21-04-2012, 10:08am
I'm trying to find the thread that will tell me how to enter competitions... can you help me out?


Teaco, if you go to the home page (although it also appears on other pages as well) you will see a list of forums and activities along the very top line of the page. Go to the very top left and you will see "home" as one of these options. Two spots to the right of "home" you will see "competitions". Click on that and follow the rest.

However, Mongo notes you are a very newish member and he is not certain whether you are not seeing the "competition" option because you may not be yet eligible to enter until you have been a member for a loner period ?????

mongo
21-04-2012, 10:10am
Mongo also cannot find where to enter this particular comp ???

Sorry all - just realised it will not be available until tomorrow night !

geoffsta
21-04-2012, 10:13am
Have a look after this weeks comp is complete. Starts Sunday 22nd 8:30pm>

Kym
21-04-2012, 10:15am
Everything your need to know about comps...

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showlibrary.php?title=Indexes:Competition_Information

teaco
21-04-2012, 11:17am
thank you all for the info.

old dog
21-04-2012, 2:14pm
challenge time alright. have to learn how to merge two different pics.......Photoshop and youtube will be my friends....:th3:

mugget
21-04-2012, 2:50pm
Hmmm... this is an interesting topic for competition. Stretching the limits a fair bit and venturing more into editing/compositing/digital painting/extensive touch-up kind of territory... time to put the thinking hat on!

Edit to add>> I should also ask - are we 'cheating' with the goal of trying to hide the fact that we're cheating (ie., creating a realistic image) or is the idea to go all-out and make something that is just plain impressive?

mongo
21-04-2012, 4:00pm
It is a very good subject for a comp. However, Mongo has the following reservations/questions:-

how will any viewer know what elements have been joined and thus able to judge how good each entry is ???? that is, how good the end result is compared to the 2 or more images were used in the first place ?? Sure, each entry will be judged by what people see and like but that would be the case for any normal contest (subject to fitting into the rules of that comp). They still may have no idea that may help them decide the earlier question Mongo posed.

It would be nice to see the several images used. It would also be nice to see them with the finished product at the time of posting for judging. However, understandably, this may make the competition too complicated to run.

Can we please not have irate or defensive responses to what Mongo has just raised - it is just something to think about and maybe refine if it is felt there is a need to do so. :)

Mary Anne
21-04-2012, 4:12pm
How will any viewer know what elements have been joined and thus able to judge how good each entry is ?

Good Point Mongo. !!!

Kym
21-04-2012, 4:34pm
Given the 'final product' is being judged it really does not matter how it was constructed.

geoffsta
21-04-2012, 5:50pm
Given the 'final product' is being judged it really does not matter how it was constructed.
I agree with mongo. Yes it's the end product that we judge. But like a Maths exam, the teacher likes to see the process that went into getting the end result. Without it, the student fails.

mongo
21-04-2012, 7:17pm
Given the 'final product' is being judged it really does not matter how it was constructed.

Kym, Mongo does not disagree - at least in part, as he has already acknowledged in his earlier post. This is a very interesting and desirable comp theme that you have come up with and Mongo is all for it. However, there are differences with this comp. In most comps we have a theme and we are judged by how well we meet the theme AND how good the final product looks and appeals.

In the intended comp., we must first of all make sure we meet the theme and get the best looking and appealing image. However, how well we meet the theme can only best be judged by the "before and after" images in Mongo's opinion. To give a quick example, anyone could meet the theme and maybe win it by posting a fantastic single image with only a pebble from a second or subsequent image blended into it. In Mongo's view, this would not meet the true spirit of the comp. and the winner in that case would really be winning on the strength of essentially the fantastic single image for all intents and purposes rather than what might be considered a true and substantial composite.

One of the ways around this is to have a rule that the final image cannot be composed of more than, say, 60 percent of one of the original used (cropping not included) OR must be a "substantial" composite OR some other type of definition(s) to better define what we are looking at at the time we view and judge the entries. It is tricky defining this and finding the right balance. Defining it too far may also have negative effects.

Sorry that Mongo has no answers about this - only some suggestions for consideration.

ricktas
21-04-2012, 9:41pm
Should we make the entry title mandatory, and have that explain some aspect of the processing

"Sky from another photo"
"Man in the hat from another photo"

mongo
22-04-2012, 6:36am
Should we make the entry title mandatory, and have that explain some aspect of the processing

"Sky from another photo"
"Man in the hat from another photo"

that is not a bad idea at all. It gives the viewer some idea of the scope of the composite they are judging .

After the comp is over, it would be nice (and informative) if we had the winner show us the "seed" images or have a thread for this purpose. But this later step is purely a thought and will not strictly be needed to have a fair and successful comp.

thanks for taking this stuff on board

Analog6
22-04-2012, 8:21am
I have made a thread (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?103398-Composite-Image-example) with an example showing creation of a composite image for the newbies to the process

zollo
22-04-2012, 10:39am
personally i would have thought that actually knowing the image is a composite would be enough. if it cannot be told where the merge has occured, all it basically means is that a good job has been done with the merge, no?
others, like myself, might want to make the merge totally obvious.

Boofhead
22-04-2012, 1:17pm
Maybe we could have one "donor" image that everyone works with? It would be interesting to see everyone's interpretations of what can be achieved with the same image blended into one of our own.

mongo
22-04-2012, 3:05pm
[UOTE=zollo;1010949]personally i would have thought that actually knowing the image is a composite would be enough. if it cannot be told where the merge has occured, all it basically means is that a good job has been done with the merge, no?
others, like myself, might want to make the merge totally obvious.[/QUOTE]


Just 2 points about what you have suggested:-


1. one would hope we all agree that unless the merge of the composites was near perfect, that entry should not be winning this comp. anyway.

2. It would not overcome concerns that “anyone could meet the theme and maybe win it by posting a fantastic single image with only a pebble from a second or subsequent image blended into it. .......this would not meet the true spirit of the comp. and the winner in that case would really be winning on the strength of essentially the fantastic single image for all intents and purposes rather than what might be considered a true and substantial composite”. By the entrant broadly advising of the nature of the composite, it will help overcome this concern and help us to better judge the work itself and also against other entires.



Maybe we could have one "donor" image that everyone works with? It would be interesting to see everyone's interpretations of what can be achieved with the same image blended into one of our own.


Mongo thinks there is already a regular thread for this sort of challenge on AP. Secondly, It is a strong basic rule of AP that we post or take credit for only our own work. In a competition (which this will be) , Mongo would have thought it more desirable than ever (if not essential) that the entries comprise only our own work and no one else’s.


These are just Mongo’s views/thoughts.

William
22-04-2012, 4:44pm
Mongo and Zollo are thinking the way I am , Which way do we go on this , I already have two Images sitting here , Both are composites , One you could hardly tell from my normal Images , The other is definatly two images , Would'nt take a Rhode scholar to work that out , Actually while doing these , Blending images is fun , Thats what should be happening in this weeks comp , Fun stuff , I say go for it , Make it obvious and creative :D

ricktas
22-04-2012, 4:52pm
“anyone could meet the theme and maybe win it by posting a fantastic single image with only a pebble from a second or subsequent image blended into it. .......this would not meet the true spirit of the comp.

Mongo would have thought it more desirable than ever (if not essential) that the entries comprise only our own work and no one else’s.


These are just Mongo’s views/thoughts.

Yes and Yes

I agree that it is the SPIRIT of the competition that would mean I hope members apply the idea of combining their two photos into one, rather than 'cheat' in a competition that is, in other people's words, 'cheating'.

Also as per our overall site rules, any photo presented on the site must be the work of the member presenting it. This rule is also in our competitions, so ALL photos used to create your entry, must be your own photography.

William
23-04-2012, 8:37am
Would the composite image be treated as a new image even if part of it was posted less than 30 days ago ? :)

ricktas
23-04-2012, 10:30am
Would the composite image be treated as a new image even if part of it was posted less than 30 days ago ? :)

No, If the composite contains part of a photo that you have put on the site in the last 30 days, it still could be readily identified by those that saw the previous thread, thus bypassing the anonymity of comp entries, so we would deem that a breach and disqualify it.

William
23-04-2012, 10:54am
:Doh:Back to the drawing board , Thanks Rick :)

Dylan & Marianne
23-04-2012, 12:00pm
how about I just screenshot one of Marc Adamus's pictures and put my watermark on it :) surely that's cheating!

ricktas
23-04-2012, 12:09pm
how about I just screenshot one of Marc Adamus's pictures and put my watermark on it :) surely that's cheating!

yes and breaching so many site rules..it wouldn't be worth it :lol2:

Erin
26-04-2012, 5:00pm
Composite images aren't really "cheats" as I assumed what was going to be the idea of this comp. I thought the cheats that were being discussed were the OTT photoshop edits that people complain about most, not so much composites of multiple images.

I have to second what Mongo says as well, actually.

ricktas
26-04-2012, 5:18pm
Composite images aren't really "cheats" as I assumed what was going to be the idea of this comp. I thought the cheats that were being discussed were the OTT photoshop edits that people complain about most, not so much composites of multiple images.

I have to second what Mongo says as well, actually.

We only called it cheating as that is what one of the threads that started this idea, was referring to it as.

marioA
26-04-2012, 6:51pm
Thank you Rick,

Shall get going with this when I get myself "organisized"....I shall be reading road rules on posting images & links again so I dont start on wrong foot,thanks,marioA

OzOutbackGirl
06-05-2012, 2:33pm
Rick, is this competition finished now? The combining two photos together. I am always away for weeks on time so never get much chance of accessing the site. I actually did combine two photos together last year sometime (can't even remember how) but it's pretty cool :-)

Don't worry about replying. Just realised it was the POTW. Can't find where to delete this message so just updated it :-( Feel a bit foolish now :-(

ricktas
06-05-2012, 3:08pm
Rick, is this competition finished now? The combining two photos together. I am always away for weeks on time so never get much chance of accessing the site. I actually did combine two photos together last year sometime (can't even remember how) but it's pretty cool :-)

Don't worry about replying. Just realised it was the POTW. Can't find where to delete this message so just updated it :-( Feel a bit foolish now :-(

Voting on it finishes tonight at 8.30pm AEST, and then the winners will be revealed and the voting results for members to see how they went.